Thanks Chris.
Perhaps the FIDE FAQ document on the US Chess website could be updated to make this more clear since the wording there makes it seem like if one player is rated over the G/90 rating threshold, none of the games in the section can be FIDE rated if the time control is G/90.
The document will be undergoing an overhaul in preparation for the new regulations/US Chess policies, effective January 1, 2022. However, I do not see a reason for us to put anything beyond the wording that will be in the FIDE regulations:
1.1 For a game to be rated each player must at the start of the tournament have the following minimum periods in which to complete all the moves, assuming the game lasts 60 moves.
I see a BIG reason to add some wording beyond what will be in the FIDE regulations. Nobody in the two threads discussing this here (which included some highly experienced TD’s and FIDE Arbiters) seemed to know based on the wording in the FIDE regulations if it’s allowed to FIDE rate a section played at say G/90;d10 if there are players with a 2400+ rating in the section and simply not rate the 2400+ players games. Some assumed it wasn’t allowed.
Another reason to add some additional wording is that this is different than US Chess rules. Under US Chess rules you can’t have a section where some games are ratable but some are not.
Saying that FIDE rules are different from US Chess rules should not be surprising to anyone who’s read both. I’m not sure it needs repeating again.
I still think clarifying the FIDE rule because of what I wrote above and have re-posted below would be good:
“I see a BIG reason to add some wording beyond what will be in the FIDE regulations. Nobody in the two threads discussing this here (which included some highly experienced TD’s and FIDE Arbiters) seemed to know based on the wording in the FIDE regulations if it’s allowed to FIDE rate a section played at say G/90;d10 if there are players with a 2400+ rating in the section and simply not rate the 2400+ players games. Some assumed it wasn’t allowed.”
It would be far better to have clear guidance FROM FIDE that excluding the 2400 player from the FIDE report because it used a time control too fast for rating for that player is permissible than for US Chess to continue to assume it is.
The FIDE QC Secretary said it is permissible.
And is that an official communication from FIDE or in an email to you?
In an email to me.
Also, Chris Bird seems to think it’s already clear from the FIDE regulations that it’s allowed and doesn’t feel the need to add any additional clarification about this when the FIDE FAQ document on the US Chess website is updated to the 2022 regulations.
Indeed, there seems to be a BIG problem with the FIDE rule as presently worded:
[b]1.1 For a game to be rated each player must at the start of the tournament have the following minimum periods in which to complete all the moves …
(Emphasis mine in the first sentence.)
The underscored clause could well be interpreted to mean, for example, that any tournament where any game is played faster than 60 minutes cannot be FIDE-rated. For example, it would not be allowed to simply excise games played at G/45 in the first two rounds of an optional 2-day schedule.
If such excision was not the intent, the FIDE rule should have been worded differently. Something along the following lines:
[b]1.1 For a game to be rated each player in the game must have the following minimum periods in which to complete all the moves …
Again, emphasis (underscoring) is mine.
This modification would transfer the phrase “at the start of the tournament” from a location where it seems to refer to the entire tournament to a location where it clearly refers to the player’s pre-tournament rating.
By “the document” you are referring to a proposed U.S. Chess document, not to a FIDE document, correct? The problem, however, is with the FIDE document.
I hope that you (Chris Bird, and other U.S. chess people who might have some influence within FIDE) will put a little pressure on FIDE to clarify their wording. Otherwise, it will continue to look as though FIDE’s left hand doesn’t know what FIDE’s right hand is doing, and eventually some organizer (within the USA or elsewhere) will get stuck in an impossible situation.
Bill Smythe
Yes, I mean the US Chess FIDE Rated Events FAQ document
In my opinion there is nothing wrong with the FIDE regulation. All events must be registered with FIDE in advance, and all information about the event provided at that time, e.g. all schedules, time controls, etc. If the proposed event does not meet the FIDE rating regulations, the organizer/arbiter will be advised as such and the event will not be registered.
It is allowable, and has already been done, to state in your pre-event advertising something along the lines of “Time control: G/90;d/5. FIDE rated - all games played by players FIDE rated 2400 or higher will not be submitted to FIDE for rating.” The organizer/arbiter will then have the responsibility of explaining to the US Chess FIDE Events Manager which games meet this criteria and should not then be rated when providing the necessary files for submission.
Not acceptable would be something like “Open Section, FIDE rated. Time control: G/90;d/5.” without adding the clause about players rated 2400 or higher, even if you do not expect anyone of such a rating. Similarly not acceptable would be something like “Under 2200 Section, FIDE rated. Time control: G/90;d/5.” Even though this is an Under 2200 section, it could theoretically be that someone with a US Chess rating of under 2200 has a FIDE rating of at least 2400. However, if you included wording in your advertising that ensured “anyone with a FIDE rating of 2400 or higher is not eligible to be in this section”, then that would make it FIDE ratable.
Note that the above is only relevant for non-norm events. Norm events still require a minimum of 2 hours per player based on 60 moves and all time controls for a norm event must be the same.
I can tell you from conversations at an Olympiad that many FIDE officials think having a different time control for some rounds is one of the dumbest and most incomprehensible things Americans do in chess tournaments.
They may have a point, but I think we could find a few even dumber and more incomprehensible things.
Within U.S. Chess, or within FIDE? Or possibly both? 
Bill Smythe
FIDE calling what Americans do dumb and incomprehensible is definitely a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Don’t get me started on the list of dumb and incomprehensible things FIDE does.
And yet nobody in the two threads discussing this issue except for you seemed to be aware that this is allowable. Therefore, I still think it would be good to clarify this in the FIDE FAQ document.
Such as? I don’t think FIDE is nearly as bad as some people in the US seem to think.
Except that the FIDE rules are unclear on this point. In one place, it seems allowable; in another, it seems not.
Micah, by “FIDE FAQ document”, do you mean something prepared by FIDE, or do you mean Chris Bird’s U.S. Chess document that tries to explain the FIDE policy?
It’s just possible that, eventually, FIDE’s right hand might come along and announce that the policy put in place by FIDE’s left hand is not correct, and that U.S. Chess shook FIDE’s wrong hand.
I think FIDE itself should do some clarifying.
Bill Smythe
I was referring to Chris Bird’s US Chess document.
Micah,
Have you thought about the reaction you will get from a hungry FM who just broke 2400 FIDE and is hoarding rating points as well as seeking 1st prize money at your tournament, because he is close to literally hungry?
“OK, you can play in the event and win first prize. It will impact your US Chess rating…but not your FIDE rating. Them’s the rules.”
I was surprised to hear the FIDE official and Chris Bird say that what you want to do is permitted. But based on their comments I think it safe to say it would be OK.
But why would you do it? Did the players in this event in recent years request that it be FIDE-rated? Do you have enough FIDE-certified arbiters/Senior TDs to handle every game in the top section, every round? Will you bundle the additional fee to FIDE-rate the event into the EF?
Best practice would be to adhere to FIDE rating rules for 2400+ players for any section in which those players may compete, whether they register in advance or show up at the site.
Use of the G/90 and G/60 minimums for lower-rated players should be limited to sections with appropriate rating caps (Under 2400 or Under 1800, as of next year) or events with player fields organized in advance.
There is a part of me that agrees with the argument “with so many rating systems, any time control should be ratable under some system.”
But a FIDE rating should have a certain cachet. It did once, when the minimum FIDE rating was 2200, and even after it was lowered to 2000. Back then, there was just one standard for FIDE ratability, as far as I know. Also just one FIDE rating system, I think. (Pre-Rapid and Blitz.)
To me, G/90 d10 is a decent control for a five-round weekend Swiss, ranging from a club-organized event to the lower end of Grand Prix.
I might blow one of five games by trying to play a “simple” endgame when down to the delay time, but my opponent might do the same. So it goes.
But a FIDE rated event, as we looked at that back in the day…should be serious chess. No more than two rounds per day, at least 120 minutes per game with main time added to delay/increment, preferably a 30-second increment…and no playing the margins just for the sake of saying it’s FIDE-rated.
Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here. Maybe it’s because I am getting old, once had some interest in obtaining a FIDE rating when the minimum was 2000, then lost interest when the minimum dropped way down and I got older and even weaker.
Granted it is permitted to do as you plan: Why?