# Another weekend, another National in Texas **URL:** \ **Category:** All Things Chess\ **Created:** [December 12, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560 "2009-12-12T16:05:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LaughingVulcan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/laughingvulcan/32/322_2.png) [@LaughingVulcan](https://forum.uschess.org/u/LaughingVulcan)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560/21 "2009-12-19T02:02:14Z")
> [@nolan](#): > > Of the 425 players from TX at the 2009 K12 (out of a total of 1221 players), 158 came from within 25 miles. Another 12 came from 26-50 miles away. So 40% of the Texas players and 13% of the total turnout came from the Dallas metro area or nearby. > > Of the 270 players from CA at the 2007 Jr High (out of a total of 994 players), 24 came from within 25 miles. Another 7 came from 26-50 miles away. That means 11% of the California players and 3% of the total turnout came from Sacramento and nearby. > > When it comes to finding sites for USCF national events, I am reminded of the old joke about the guy who lost a quarter at 1st and Main and was searching for it at 2nd and Pine, because the light was better there. Low room rates are important, but so is a reasonable base of local players to support the event. > > I did some analysis by population centers shortly after the poor turnout at Sacramento. In terms of USCF members per 10,000 population, Sacramento ranks in the bottom 10% of the roughly 930 population centers defined by the government. > > My understanding is that Pat Knight-Smith has been using that analysis to help in choosing areas to look for sites for national events. Texas has the largest number of USCF members, especially among those eligible for national scholastic events. Texas may have the largest number of USCF members. But Texas also is 7.5% of the land area of the U.S. and 8.84% of the continental U.S. I’d expect that Texas would have the most members (discounting Alaska.) But how much travel time would be required to get where in the state - is that a factor? Same deal with California… 5.27% of U.S. land area. I’d bet that in both states, the majority of members are in the large population centers of the states. (Which is why I can see using census-defined population areas in calculations.) But statewide I’d think one ought to factor in land area to member numbers, somehow. For example, in the time it takes to get from San Francisco to San Diego, I can travel one-way from my home to any of the following cities: Minneapolis, MN Omaha, NE Des Moines, IA Kansas City, MO Memphis, TN Huntington, WV Columbus, OH Detroit, MI Green Bay, WI Now I’ll acknowledge that I’m centrally located to all those points. So I don’t know if I have a point of if that’s irrelevant. But I humbly think that distance is a factor, too. ---
**Author:** ![nolan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/nolan/32/174_2.png) [@nolan](https://forum.uschess.org/u/nolan)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560/22 "2009-12-19T02:11:08Z")
Brownsville TX, which is by no means the largest population center in the state, has a very successful scholastic program. When I ran the numbers back in 2007, the Brownsville metro area had over twice as many USCF members per 10,000 in population as ANY other metro area in the country. (I think Tucson AZ was a distant #2.) ---
**Author:** ![hmb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d6d6ee/32.png) [@hmb](https://forum.uschess.org/u/hmb)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560/23 "2009-12-19T17:48:13Z")
> [@anjiaoshi](#): > > > [@hmb](#): > > > > USCF has great technical organization capabilities for many of these nationals, especially the scholastics. But sadly, USCF has no instinct at all for event promotion. > > For those of us who don’t live in California, can I ask you to elaborate on why Irvine is such a poor choice? Southern California has a large population, and the worst traffic in the country. The US Open runs through an entire work week, and traffic will affect the “local” attendance. I would bet that situating the US Open somewhere on a rough line running from Pasadena, through downtown and west LA, down to LAX, would maximize the possibility of driving to the event daily by locals from all the major valleys and down the coast a ways. To play evening rounds in Irvine as a commuter, one would literally have to arrive there by mid-to-late afternoon to avoid being frozen in traffic instead. Nor could San Diego players hope to make it north on I-5 with rush hour (and it is not a single hour!) making the drive very hard or even impossible. The only solution for this, in my opinion, is to start the daily rounds at 3 PM, rather than hope locals could commute to game starting at 7 or 7:30 PM. I also think that there are numerous other organizational components that reduce the appeal of the US Open that are corrrectable, unrelated to geographical location. The fracturing of the event into many alternate schedules is one of them, and I hope my point about the traffic doesn’t lead to yet another alternate schedule. By the way, the alternate theories posted here have been entertaining - thanks! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![panchess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b5ac83/32.png) [@panchess](https://forum.uschess.org/u/panchess)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560/24 "2009-12-19T19:07:10Z")
How many New Yorkers went to Texas this year? I am sure it was almost 200 or so. Were we second after TX in attendance? USCF has poured resources into Texas, and had some success. NY has been treated like the proverbial red-headed stepchild by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![fpawn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/fpawn/32/215_2.png) [@fpawn](https://forum.uschess.org/u/fpawn)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 12:38am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560/25 "2009-12-20T00:38:00Z")
> [@panchess](#): > > USCF has poured resources into Texas, and had some success. NY has been treated like the proverbial red-headed stepchild by comparison. And I always thought New York was the most natural place to be in America to witness a broad spectrum of chess resources (adult and scholastic). ---
**Author:** ![nolan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/nolan/32/174_2.png) [@nolan](https://forum.uschess.org/u/nolan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 2:15am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560/26 "2009-12-20T02:15:27Z")
Aside from holding a few national events in Texas, which was largely a function of having inexpensive sites, what resources has the USCF ‘poured’ into Texas? New York would be prohibitively expensive as a site for a national scholastic or for the US Open. ---
**Author:** ![KeithAmmann](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/keithammann/32/2606_2.png) [@KeithAmmann](https://forum.uschess.org/u/KeithAmmann)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 2:37am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560/27 "2009-12-20T02:37:48Z")
> [@fpawn](#): > > > [@panchess](#): > > > > USCF has poured resources into Texas, and had some success. NY has been treated like the proverbial red-headed stepchild by comparison. > > And I always thought New York was the most natural place to be in America to witness a broad spectrum of chess resources (adult and scholastic). New York City probably is, but what’s the rest of the state look like? I’d be interested in seeing states (and perhaps also metro areas) ranked by membership per 100,000 residents. ---
**Author:** ![artichoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@artichoke](https://forum.uschess.org/u/artichoke)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560/28 "2009-12-20T03:29:35Z")
There’s a building up the Hudson a ways in New Windsor that might have some meeting space available … but they don’t have enough parking. Nationwide figures for hotel “Revenue Per Available Room” are falling off a cliff. I don’t know if that’s affecting the NYC area. But if it is, the terms should be a bit more reasonable to hold an event at a hotel. And some places that don’t want a chess tournament might see the benefits of flexibility if it helps them make their next mortgage payment. ---
**Author:** ![panchess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b5ac83/32.png) [@panchess](https://forum.uschess.org/u/panchess)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 12:24am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560/29 "2009-12-21T00:24:02Z")
There is cheap space in Central Jersey, which I realize isn’t in New York, but would be in the middle of the country’s eastern “chess heartland.” If the Amateur Team can be run there every year as a smashing success in February, why can’t a National Scholastic or the US Open? Texas gets five or six Nationals (and almost all of the ones USCF bids out). Organizers can’t bid for tournaments the office handles, and the office pattern is to go to the same four or five places. Everybody else is iced out. Mr. Nolan didn’t answer my question on NY attendance in Dallas. Guess I’ll have to start counting. ---
**Author:** ![nolan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/nolan/32/174_2.png) [@nolan](https://forum.uschess.org/u/nolan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 4:13am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560/30 "2009-12-21T04:13:13Z")
I don’t think the Parsippany Hilton has enough space to hold a national scholastic event, it appears they have around 25,000 square feet of meeting room space and that’s maybe half of what is needed these days, as I recall. ---
**Author:** ![nolan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/nolan/32/174_2.png) [@nolan](https://forum.uschess.org/u/nolan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 4:36am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560/31 "2009-12-21T04:36:09Z")
Here’s a breakdown of turnout by state for spring national events since 2006. (The total players might not be quite the same as the table I posted over in the USCF Issues thread because of players who were in multiple sections.) [code]year event site players NY TX FL IL WI MZ AZ CA NC TN MO MN PA OH WA KS * * * 2006 ELEM CO 1959 450 269 88 24 14 52 154 64 42 13 15 49 21 9 120 53 2006 HS WI 1423 104 53 51 181 303 69 52 25 32 35 61 72 55 49 10 28 2006 JHS KY 1123 219 48 79 53 9 66 43 10 65 42 19 47 10 86 14 15 2007 ELEM TN 2102 497 157 68 93 56 69 96 33 118 160 37 75 21 31 79 24 2007 HS MO 1447 162 52 68 85 97 53 61 27 43 12 182 42 31 58 18 201 2007 JHS CA 994 172 35 73 4 3 34 69 276 30 12 0 45 12 4 37 5 2008 ELEM PA 2186 665 119 75 57 84 96 53 35 110 29 20 50 179 84 86 17 2008 HS GA 1221 180 58 49 46 97 51 56 11 91 12 63 19 45 30 11 29 2008 JHS TX 908 165 240 60 12 0 45 20 15 27 6 10 41 21 3 23 26 2009 SUPER NATIONALS TN 5247 961 434 292 286 188 259 166 119 245 274 217 144 137 127 145 103 [/code] And here’s the 2009 K12: [code]year event site players NY TX FL IL WI MZ AZ CA NC TN MO MN PA OH WA KS * * * 2009 K12 TX 1211 236 429 100 8 5 5 38 45 5 5 12 5 5 22 15 12 [/code] ---
**Author:** ![timjust](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/timjust/32/44_2.png) [@timjust](https://forum.uschess.org/u/timjust)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 11:32am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560/32 "2009-12-21T11:32:20Z")
> [@panchess](#): > > There is cheap space in Central Jersey, which I realize isn’t in New York, but would be in the middle of the country’s eastern “chess heartland.” If the Amateur Team can be run there every year as a smashing success in February, why can’t a National Scholastic or the US Open? > > Texas gets five or six Nationals (and almost all of the ones USCF bids out). Organizers can’t bid for tournaments the office handles, and the office pattern is to go to the same four or five places. Everybody else is iced out. > > Mr. Nolan didn’t answer my question on NY attendance in Dallas. Guess I’ll have to start counting. I believe the National Youth Action for 2010 is going to be in New Jersey. ---
**Author:** ![panchess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b5ac83/32.png) [@panchess](https://forum.uschess.org/u/panchess)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 12:59pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560/33 "2009-12-21T12:59:39Z")
That would be great news if it is true. The Federation whose president once said, “We are a national organization, not a New York organization” has certainly backed up the talk. Now they cover the whole country – Houston, Dallas, Lubbock, El Paso, Brownsville and San Antone! ---
**Author:** ![panchess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b5ac83/32.png) [@panchess](https://forum.uschess.org/u/panchess)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 1:02pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560/34 "2009-12-21T13:02:55Z")
In Pittsburgh, New Yorkers made up 1/3 of the field despite the tournament being six hours from NYC. In similar circumstances for the Supernationals or the Nationals in Missouri, the Texans simply didn’t show up. ---
**Author:** ![nolan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/nolan/32/174_2.png) [@nolan](https://forum.uschess.org/u/nolan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560/35 "2009-12-21T15:04:25Z")
I wouldn’t call being over 10% of the field ‘not showing up’, especially when you consider that NY players made up 23% of the field at the Elementary that year (in TN) and 17% of the field at the JHS in CA. There were also more NY players at the 2007 HS in MO than at the 2006 HS in WI. There were 526 players from NY at SuperNationals I (12.2%), 597 at SuperNationals II (12.9%), 785 at SuperNationals III (14.6%). Around 2/3 of them were under the age of 13, so turnout from NY is much higher for the elementary sections, even at SuperNationals. I doubt any other state could show those kind of numbers, much that kind of growth over the four SuperNationals. ---
**Author:** ![artichoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@artichoke](https://forum.uschess.org/u/artichoke)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560/36 "2009-12-21T15:50:00Z")
> [@panchess](#): > > In Pittsburgh, New Yorkers made up 1/3 of the field despite the tournament being six hours from NYC. In similar circumstances for the Supernationals or the Nationals in Missouri, the Texans simply didn’t show up. Well granted, one can be six hours from one part of Texas and sixteen hours from another part. And the Brownsville part is quite far from Missouri. But still it does seem that we’re spending a lot of time on Texas. Maybe we’ve sort of “done” Texas for a while. ---
**Author:** ![nolan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/nolan/32/174_2.png) [@nolan](https://forum.uschess.org/u/nolan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560/37 "2009-12-21T17:21:57Z")
I don’t think there are any national scholastics scheduled in TX in 2010. According to the long range planning calendar on the website, the 2011 and 2014 National Elementary tournaments are in Dallas, the 2011 K-12 is also in Dallas. ---
**Author:** ![Harry\_Payne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Harry\_Payne](https://forum.uschess.org/u/Harry_Payne)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560/38 "2009-12-21T21:51:57Z")
> [@anjiaoshi](#): > > > [@evicary](#): > > > > The most important thing is that it is held somewhere as warm as possible. > > If you liberals would quit your meddling, we could make it even warmer. It really won’t matter after we( Working Americans) get though paying for the “liberals” Health Care Package . There may not be enough left, with money enough to play Chess. ---
**Author:** ![panchess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b5ac83/32.png) [@panchess](https://forum.uschess.org/u/panchess)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 11:47pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560/39 "2009-12-21T23:47:12Z")
That’s three more Nationals than will be in NY in the next five years! ---
**Author:** ![nolan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/nolan/32/174_2.png) [@nolan](https://forum.uschess.org/u/nolan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 12:05am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560/40 "2009-12-22T00:05:02Z")
Find a safe and affordable site with enough space for a national scholastic and decent transportation options, and send that information to Pat Knight, [pknight@uschess.org](mailto:pknight@uschess.org). I think for a National Elementary they need something like 100,000 square feet of space and they prefer a room rate of under $100, though I don’t know how much longer they’ll be able to meet that target anywhere. Having been involved with other types of conventions, one of the big challenges in New York may be dealing with unions. Imagine having to pay union workers to set up all the chessboards! (I knew more than a few exhibitors who paid the union workers extra to NOT set up or touch anything.) [Previous page](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.uschess.org/t/another-weekend-another-national-in-texas/11560.md?page=3)