Based-on-Prizes Minimums

OK, you’re saying, then, that the additional restriction is that each section must payout proportionately? As in:

Open: $400 b/20 (8 players)
Reserve: $400 b/30 (18 players)

So, in addition to paying out at least 50%, the Reserve must pay out
60% and the Open will pay 50%, with each prize in each section being reduced in proportion to the total reduction. I really think this is covered in 32C4.

I may just be mathematically challenged, but it seems that we have the same thing no matter how you look at it. We have to pay 60% in the Reserve because we got 60% turnout (in the reserve), and we have to pay 50% in the Open, because the total tournament prize fund is more than $500. I agree with the reason for the Reserve payout, but not for the reason of the Open payout.

This definitely needs clarification, as I still read 34D as an EXCEPTION rather than an ADDITION, because the ADDITION is already written into 32C4.

Oops. Make that 32D in place of 32C4 everywhere. 32D is the place that allows differing rates of payout in an event with separate based-on prizes.

correct, I was tired when I made that example. Instead, let’s say 400 b/20 and 400 b/20

The rest of your argument sounds reasonable, which is why I think clarification is needed.

“But” might be better than “and”, but I think “even if” is even better. Something like this:

Nevertheless, I have some other comments (coming in a few minutes) which may supercede the above. Stay tuned.

Bill Smythe

Staying tuned :slight_smile:

this is much better wording, if that’s the intent of the rule.

Are you suggesting the above as an addition to 32D, or a replacement?

If you intend it as an addition, there is a lot of duplicated language, and a definite feeling of redundancy.

If you intend it as a replacement, you are removing an important part of the existing rule. In effect, you are replacing one omission with another.

32C4 is really two rules: (1) the proportional rule, and (2) the 50% rule. The first applies to all tournaments. The second applies to tournaments with a prize fund of $500.01 or more.

32C4 naturally brings up a question, for multi-section events: Does 32C4 apply to each section, or to the tournament as a whole? 32D attempts to provide an answer, but by lumping the proportional rule and the 50% rule together, it creates ambiguity and confusion.

ASSUMING that we want the 50% rule to apply to the whole tournament, even when the proportional rule applies to each section, we need a 32D that addresses BOTH issues specifically. Something like this:

Bill Smythe

No one’s arguing with the need for a clarification. I’m just saying that your interpretation seems a strained one, based on the assumption that all those rules were carefully examined for consistency (the “every word must be assumed to have meaning” standard).

Part of the overall confusion might be the fact that 32C4 and 32D appear as different rules. 32C4 is a subset of 34C, and 32D appears to refer to the overall rule number 32.
Also there is a substantial difference in space (discussion) between the rules within the rulebook (separated by “tips” and examples).
Rather than repeating ourselves, and possibly adding to the confusion (and possible apparent contradiction) how about:

32D probably should be a subset of 32C4.

32C4 In all tournament where prizes are based on entries, if the actual turnout is smaller than the based-on turnout, prizes must be paid in proportion to the turnout.
32C4a If the total advertised prize fund is greater than $500 (all sections combined), at least 50% of each advertised prize must be paid.
32C4b If separate based on goals are announced for different sections, then the proportion paid in each section is treated separately. 32C4a still applies.

We may also want to renumber 32E as 32C4c

NOW we’re getting somewhere.

I think we should also separate the proportional rule from the 50% rule a little more. Something like this:


32C4. Based-on prizes. In tournaments in which prizes are based on entries, if the actual turnout is smaller than the based-on turnout, the following rules apply:
32C4a. Proportional payout. Each prize must be paid at least in proportion to the turnout.
32C4b. 50% minimum. If the total advertised prize fund is greater than $500 (all sections combined), at least 50% of each advertised prize must be paid.
32C4c. Multiple-section tournaments. If separate based-on goals are announced for different sections, then the proportion paid in each section (32C4a) is treated separately. If a common based-on goal is announced for multiple sections, then the proportion paid in these sections is considered together. In either case, 32C4b still applies.


Bill Smythe