If the first time control runs out, players can make the claim from a correct score sheet if not enough moves were made (whatever X actually is).
I assume this is meant to be analogous to situations where the clocks don’t add the second time control until the first has expired, and it is up to the players to notice whether enough moves have been played? The move counter turned off this way seems to accomplish that.
I seriously doubt that that was what he meant.
Maybe I misunderstood Micah’s description of this sort of time control, but I took him to be saying that x is just a place-filler, and that there is no specified number or moves. The clock simply adds 30 minutes or whatever after the initial time runs out, and nobody cares how many moves have been made. If this is the correct interpretation, my question remains. If your interpretation is correct (and after re-reading Micah’s post, I suspect it is), I will put on my Emily Litella glasses and say “Never mind!”
Hold on just a cotton-pickin’ minute, guys. Perhaps I should have said “set” instead of “specified”.
Yes, in a two-time-control event, of course the number of moves in the first control must be specified in the TLA, e.g. 40/90 SD/30; inc/30.
I was referring to the way some popular clocks, notably the DGT North American, handle the transition from the first control to the second. On that clock, mode number 16 is used for two time controls with increment:
The organizer has now completed setting the clock for 40/90 SD/30; inc/30.
The game begins, the clock starts counting clock presses, and after black’s 40th adds 30 minutes to each side.
Little does the organizer understand that, instead of entering 40 as the number of moves in the first control, he could have entered 00. In this case, the clock (at least the DGT NA), during the setting process, still would have asked for the second-control main time and then the number of moves in the second control.
And the clock would function differently during the game. Instead of adding 30 minutes to both sides after black’s 40th clock press, it would add 30 minutes to each player’s side after that player’s initial 90 minutes has run out.
And the net difference is zero, as long as neither player has exceeded the initial 90 minutes during the first 40 moves, and as long as the clock’s press counter remains accurate. Both methods of setting the clock will give the players the SAME amount of time to reach move 40, and the same amount of time to finish the game.
But some players and some TDs have strong preferences one way or the other. It is nice to see the clock add 30 minutes after move 40, and some players may freak out if this doesn’t appear to be happening. OTOH, having the clock-press count trigger the time control can cause serious problems if the counter becomes inaccurate, e.g. if there have been missed clock presses (somebody forgot to press the clock) or extra clock presses (an illegal move was completed and then corrected), etc.
Please, there is no need to debate, in this thread, which clock-setting method is preferable. That’s been argued interminably in other threads, and can continue there if desired. There are plusses and minuses on both sides. Such a debate should probably be considered off-topic in this thread.
My main point is that many organizers and TDs, at least the less experienced ones, may not have given much thought as to which setting method is preferable. They will probably just go through the steps above, unaware of the detailed consequences.
I am simply urging organizers and TDs to consider all the issues, and to choose the clock setting method they consider superior.
Bill Smythe
I now own a Leap KK9908 clock (I won a $50 gift certificate to US Chess sales through the recent “#GetUSChess” contest and used some of that to get the clock!) so I’ve added to my document how the clock adds the second time control to the display. Here is how the clock does it.
The clock adds the second time control simultaneously for both players once the time in the first time control runs out for one of the players, regardless of if the prescribed number of moves in the first time control were met. For the player who passed the time control first, a flag appears on their side of the clock for five minutes of real time. The flag will be white if the prescribed number of moves in the first time control were met and the flag will be black if the prescribed number of moves in the first time control were not met
What do you think of this design feature?
That would seem to foil the intention of those players who ask their clocks to add time based on time running out rather than on the move count. It’s as though the clock is thumbing its nose at you. “Ha ha, you wanted only the time to trigger the next control, but I was counting moves anyway, and I decided to tell you whether (based on the move count) there was an actual time forfeit or not.”
Bill Smythe
I dislike the use of a flag (regardless of color) as the symbol for having moved on to the next time control. Too many players associate the word (or symbol) “flag” with a time forfeit. I have seen people get upset when the DGT North American clock does this, because they think they have “flagged” and can’t understand why. I would strongly suggest using some other symbol (not that any clock manufacturer cares what I suggest).
Yes, most clocks do the flag thing. However, the flag is a distraction; only the score matters?
Under some rule sets (e.g. FIDE), the arbiter is supposed to call the flag down, and is also supposed to figure out, if possible, whose flag fell first, and rule accordingly. Having the flag show on only one side tells the arbiter what he needs to know.
Under other rule sets (e.g. U.S. Chess), this information is not used, but as long as the clock keeps running, it is harmless. The distraction you feel is small potatoes compared to the fact that clock manufacturers wisely design their clocks to be compatible with either rule set. Get used to it.
Bill Smythe
I’ve added the Chess Evolution clocks to my document, pdxchess.org/wp-content/uploads/ … rement.pdf.
By the way, I purchased a Chess Evolution Premium clock. It is suppose to arrive on Wednesday. I’ll let you know my thoughts on it after I get it.
I’ve added the Pursun-1688/Xflyee clock to my clock document, pdxchess.org/wp-content/uploads/ … rement.pdf
By the way, I bought an Xflyee clock and wrote a review of it on the chess.com forum, chess.com/forum/view/chess- … st_comment. In short, I think it’s a very good clock.