Mike, you should feel flattered by the comparison to the Gibraltar Chess Festival, a world-class event that had 52 GMs and WGMs last month.
I could be wrong, but I’m not sure there has ever been an event in the USA which had that many GMs in it. Good luck in August with your event, which starts two days after the US Open ends.
I feel the need to respond to those last batch of comments:
@Sevan : There is only one answer to it : Corporate or Other Kind of Sponsorship.
@Mike Regan, No I understood you well from the very beginning, since I followed the discussion thread from last year. This is rather cynical attempt of yours to weed out lower rated masters while keeping your tournament within framework of Grand Prix. This did not work that well last year, so this is your “creative” attempt #2. This time it should succeed.
@Mike Nolan, You totally misunderstood me mentioning Gibraltar. In fact, I was using Gibraltar as an example of how things can and should work, and “600 Washingtons” International in my opinion is how they should not. Gibraltar made EVERYONE welcome by offering whole specrum of events where anyone from Top-level GM to non-rated Amature could play. Entry fee was part of Hotel accomodation (which by the way included breakfast and dinner).
Washington International on the contrary makes whole group of players UNWELCOME. Mr. Regan should not be flattered at all.
If you think you can do a better job organizing, including finding major sponsors, please do so!
Ah so you want the organizer to go do the work to subsidize you so you can be pacified? Why don’t you do the work to subsidize yourself or do the work and bring this ‘sponsor’ to the organizer?
Again this is the something for nothing routine.
It’s easy to say - Corporate or other type of sponsorship. Have you done sponsorship searches before for events such as this? I have and I know how challenging it can be. And I know it’s not always possible.
In an ideal world Coca-Cola, Nike, and IBM would sponsor chess (oops the last one did and got pooped on by a former World Champion!) and give blank checks to organizers. This isn’t an ideal world we live in.
Sevan, look at this from my prospective:
We are approximately the same age, so this comparison should be fair.
U2200 sections of HBO Global Challenge, U2200 World Open and some other major tournaments.
Still, from a rating prospective I am a better player and I expect to beat you at least 8:2 in the match of 10. Fair enough?
Now suppose we both come to “600 Washingtons” International or wait it is only 600 Washingtons for me. You are welcome to section B and you only need to pony 300 Washingtons.
So, essentially, I am being penalised for being a better player?! Actually, cynically I am penalised for crossing 2200 line. How is it fair?! In a sense, I am encouraged to drop below 2200 (never intentinally done that and will never do). How is that good for American chess?
Additionally organizer states that he doesn’t even expect anyone to part with $600.00, so I am not even expected to show up.
So not surprisingly, I want this model to fail and I do not want copycats.
Now, let me address your point about “organizing it yourself”. I am IT specialist by education and work experience. I know what I do and I do it well. I have no education in business (which organizing partially is) or economy, nor should I have any experience with running a company, etc. Why should I be advised to do something I am not prepared to do by both education and experience and what purpose would my failure to organize the better event serve?
However, I witnessed first hand (with the Biel festival in Switzerland) that big Open events can be done and done well with a sponsorship, and I have every right to state my opinion as a player, who enjoyed those. I beleive my opinion should be treated with respect, same as yours.
~MK.
With regards to your second point about me going and searching for corporate sponsorship.
No, I never done this and possibly will never do. Once again, I have no relation to this by either education or experience and my failure to succeed in this area is not going to prove any point.
Interestingly enough, however, a former elementary school buddy of mine (really close friend) is the biggest owner of three-star hotels in Russia and recently purchased another hotel chain in Germany and Austria. If he ever ventures in US, I maybe in position to approach him, but until now, I would leave this to professionals.
On a somewhat separate note, I am not surprised that the only voice of support came from Mr. Magar, who at his 2096 Fide and 2215 USCF is exactly in the same boat as me. People seem to only care if they are personally affected.
I’m pretty sure there were multiple New York Opens with more than 52 GMs (for example, in 1998, when the Armenian contingent overran the top 4 boards in the last round, there were about 60 GMs in the Open Section - and another 3 or 4, IIRC, in the U2400). However, this just underlines the difficulty of what Mr. Regan is trying to do, and the praise he deserves for trying it.
Mikhail,
As I said earlier the two highest entrance fees are so that the tournament is a grand prix tournament. I am doing that because it will be one of the strongest tournaments of the year and it doesn’t seem fair that players would not earn GP points just because there is a minimum rating to play in the tournament. I was well aware that there are a small group of players in your rating range that could not play in either section but I could not come up with a solution.
You are not being penalised for being over 2200. The problem is that you don’t have a FIDE rating. If your FIDE rating was over 2100 would you play?
My education and job are in astronomy and physics. This is not my job but something I do to help chess.
BTW, Sevan’s entrance fee would only be 249 or 199 if he stayed at the hotel.
Mike
The European examples are not good ones to use here because the environments are so vastly different in terms of chess culture. You are talking about countries and continents that have long, rich, and established histories in chess and chess sponsorship.
There is a reason why the large Open Swisses here (World Open, Chicago Open, etc) use a model to have class players subsidize the Open section.
@ Mike Regan - if you have flyers for the event please email me a PDF and I’ll distribute in my area.
I would expect that the Washington International will do OK, but because of specific circumstances. There are a dozens and dozens of FIDE rated players, the result of tournaments run by Mike Atkins and other organizers in the DC/N. Virginia over the last few years. Those tournaments sowed the seeds for the possibility for the Washington International to exist. I played in a number of those tournaments, putting both a USCF and FIDE rating on the line like many other masters, to the benefit of a number of juniors and other unrated players.
Mr. Regan has offered me a chance to play in this event, even if my rating is still slightly under the 2100 FIDE mark. I give him kudoes for that graciousness, but I am still unlikely to consider playing. The high entry fee still seems little thanks for traveling to Virginia from Pgh in the past and helping others to get a FIDE rating to earn eligibility to play in this event. The event will have to succeed or fail with only local support. With the $599 and the other expense money I would be forced to spend, I could play in the Gem City Open, Columbus Open, the Cleveland Open, and a tournament in Buffalo, all FIDE rated events. That is four events for the price of one. Last year I played in both Dayton and Cleveland and improved my FIDE rating. I am not interested in one of the diluted titles. But I have sought to play in strong events when I have been able to do so, as is evident from my MSA record.
One time when I played in a World Open circa the late 1990’s, a foreign IM and I had a little chat after our game. He told me that it was foolish for 2200’s to play in such an Open event against the pros. He told me that the organizers were just exploiting us for the EFs. The top players were not interested in playing us but were concerned about having “accidents” that hurt their rating or their prize chances. I told him that I enjoyed the challenge and sought to improve my FIDE rating. He eyed me up and set “What for?” He related how difficult it was for even 2500 GMs to make a living from competition, that teaching and writing were just enough to get by but took away from preparation. Only a select few could make it to the big time as top organizers increasingly offered invitations and perks only to 2700+ rated players. I asked him why he still played. He said that he had no other skill, had tried his best, and now was stuck with the grind of playing, teaching a few rich students, and had a little bit of sponsorship from his European club. He was just getting by. When queried if he was still striving for a GM title, he said he was too old for it (he was in his late 30’s). That it must come when you are young and soon after winning a IM title, or not at all. He said that those who took the risk and failed were often in economic difficulties. It was an interesting discussion. So, I still play and seek the challenge, but I will not waste money on norm tournaments. At age 59, I think Dirty Harry’s bit of advice is apropos, “A man has got to know his limitations.”
As for the argument, well if you don’t like it, go out and organize it yourself, that falls a little flat. As a TD and organizer, I have enough skill to do what you suggest. But I would not set up an event that exploits players so much for the benefit of so few.
Thomas,
First, I said in my PM that you could pay the FIDE 2200-2100 EF. That starts at $399. Since you are over 50 and if you stay at the hotel, the net EF would be $299 not $599. As you note, given the other expenses for travel and hotel, the $299 is not a large fraction of the total cost.
This tournament’s success is not based on local players. Unlike our weekend Swiss tournaments, in last year’s event the vast majority of players were not local.
I also don’t see anyone being exploited. If players don’t believe the will receive value for their EF, they don’t have to play. If you don’t want to play in the tournament, why are you so negative on it? The Washington International is not a threat to the regular weekend swiss tournaments you mention. They will always be there. I don’t understand your animosity to a different type of tournament.
Mike
Mike, can a player who has a USCF rating over 2200 but no FIDE rating (or one under 2100) play in the B section?
It’s also worth noting that this event isn’t until August, giving players over 5 months to get a FIDE and/or USCF rating high enough to qualify for the lower rates in the A section.
Mike,
No they could not, that’s part of the problem that several posters have.
Mike
Everyone has “choices.” Some are real, others are thrust upon them by circumstances. If I am negative about this type of tournament, it is because if it becomes a standard, then it will crowd out other tournaments for masters and candidate masters. If it comes to having the “choice” of playing in expensive tournaments in order to get competition or playing in local events where real competition and the ability to hone your game is sparse, then it means having little choice at all. I know too many masters and experts who have “retired” from play long before they should, which was a real detriment to the game and the development of local chess.
Over time, I watched a lot of A players fade from the game as the prize structures gave them little chance of success. The rise of class tournaments brought some of them back. Then it was the Experts who disappeared because they had little chance against the masters in open events. Higher class sections and prizes for Experts were offered so as not to lose customers. Now it is the time for the masters to get whacked. The local guys who rose to the top of their little ponds. Guys who teach chess, organize events, TD on occasion. Even maybe got a FIDE rating. It was only recently that U2400 sections were offered to draw them out to compete on a higher level. There are only a few hundred of us active in the US. If we withdraw from play or stay only in our own little ponds, where are you going to find players for talented juniors and the ambitious to cut their teeth on? Please don’t thank us for hanging around, but don’t insult us by setting up events that cost so much and where we are to be used as cannon fodder the way A players and Experts used to be treated by the top organizers. The overall cost exceeds $900 for this event, including travel expenses. How many will break even?
The combined hotel/entry fee for the Gibraltar Chess Festival ranges from 1115 for single occupancy to 2145 pounds for triple occupancy ($1782 to $3310), and that doesn’t include travel expenses, either. I wonder how many players in the Open break even?
The fees for the Challengers Tournament are a bit higher.
Thomas,
I think your fears of this format of tournament driving out weekend swiss tournaments are misplaced. I believe that the most that there could ever be in the US with this type of format is well below 10 (as in closer to 1 than to 10).
Since I said you could play in the A section for a net $299 EF, what is it about the tournament that makes it so much worse than the World Open where the lowest EF is $318?
Given that this tournament is not one that just recycles player entrance fees but actually awarded more prizes last year than the total of the entrance fees, how is that a bad thing for chess?
Mike
Mike, I agree with you that this type of event is never going to replace the standard weekend Swiss (which is oriented more towards amateurs), but I think you may be underestimating the number of professional level events that the market could support. Getting there wouldn’t be easy, but if you think about how many GM events are held in Europe every year, the USA is bigger, at least geographically.
I have no fears for the MD/N. Virginia area. There is a unique combination of having many FIDE rated players and an affluent base or core to draw from. Your tournament should do fine just from the local scene where a lot of work has been done by yourself and others over the years to create the chess environment there. Of course, I would expect you will draw few low income players. Just like the World Open drew few low income players when it was in Philadelphia. Some really talented guys there; they just don’t have the money to compete and make themselves better.
When the HB Global tournament happened, it was a shock. $350 to play in a chess tournament? It was unheard of. Then other organizers started to raise their fees so that they could be the cool tournament that could offer norms. This had an effect on the organization of other Grand Prix events. The middle range regional events have higher costs and are increasingly local affairs. Some organizers switched to the more lucrative scholastic scene. Local events are a mixed bag. I see many get smaller as players saved their money to play in a bigger event. Instead of playing in 8 events, many guys play in one. My fear is as this norm fetish continues it will drive out some other events. The costs will also continue to exacerbate the divide between the affluent and the less affluent player. Maybe the more self absorbed norm seekers don’t notice or care, the social characteristics of tournament play change if we create this type of tournament as a model. Of course, the usual affluent suspects at these types of events might like it this way.
With respect, just to point out that sometimes the “underwriters” of such
events, those on the dotted line to pay expenses such as hotel costs
if the event does not pan out, are parents of those players seeking
to upgrade their FIDE ratings and create norm possibilities. Bottom
line finances is not a key goal. Maintaining norm level events is.
To each their own.
Rob Jones