At this year’s Oregon Open (which isn’t until Labor Day Weekend in September), we will likely experiment with having the blitz side event played at G/3;inc3 instead of G/3;inc2 which we’ve done for the past several years and adding a rapid side event at G/6;inc6. The point of G/3;inc3 and G/6;inc6 is that it gives a total of 5 minutes per side and 10 minutes per side, respectively, if the game lasts 40 moves and a high percentage of games last around 40 moves. I’ll let you know how these time controls are received by the players. Last year we changed the time control of the main tournament to G/100;inc30 and the reason this was chosen over the more common G/90;inc30 is because G/100;inc30 gives a total of two hours per side if the game lasts 40 moves.
Even though G/3 inc/2 is actually faster than G/5 d/0 unless the game goes to 60 moves, as a player I would still greatly prefer the former. It gives me more time when I most need it, namely, after move 60.
But here we’re talking about G/3 inc/3 versus G/3 inc/2, not G/5 d/0.
FIDE has adopted 60 moves as its (arbitrary, but reasonable) comparison point, because most games don’t go beyond move 60. By adopting 40 moves as your comparison point, you are aligning with “average” games rather than with the “longest” games. If that’s what you want to do, that’s fine. Neither is inherently either more or less theoretically sound than the other. Your way is just “new”.
Personally, I would stick with the (arbitrary unofficial) 60-move FIDE standard, just to actually have a standard that is generally accepted around the world.
Meanwhile, the only thing your players will notice is that G/3 inc/3 is slower than last year’s G/3 inc/2. They won’t care about any 60- or 40-move “standards”.
My prediction is that players rated below, say, 2000 will largely like your change, while those over 2000 will largely decry it as yet another erosion of the blitz concept. Players in the latter group already tend to dislike the trend away from G/5 d/0 toward G/3 inc/2 to begin with, believing that anything with increment isn’t “true” blitz anymore.
Since most players in blitz side events (at least the ones I’ve seen) are rated below 2000, I predict overwhelming approval of your idea, but simply because it is slower, not because of any theoretical considerations.
Bill Smythe
In my opinion, the only “true blitz” is G/5 with no delay and no increment. However, I don’t play blitz (I actually don’t play anything quicker than G/90 anymore), and I don’t direct blitz, so “I don’t have a dog in that fight.” Carry on.
Yes, please let us know what feedback you receive.
Alex Relyea
It went really well. We had an excellent turnout of 36 players in both the Rapid and Blitz and it seemed the players liked the time controls.
I direct online events for ICC. Increment can last forever. I have a 15 inc. 5 delay the tourn for an hour. Since then, I have resorted to declaring a draw if I see 5-time repetition or 75 moves
Rarely is “increment can last forever” an issue. Also, what do you mean by “15 inc. 5 delay”?
“15 inc. 5” is the time control, and it delayed the tournament for an hour.
This seems like it would be extremely rare if (a) rounds are scheduled at reasonable times, and (b) normal procedures are followed to prevent people from playing hundreds of moves with no progress. I’m not a fan of increment, but I’ve played in numerous tournaments with a G/90 inc 30 time control, and don’t remember any round ever being delayed. I have seen delays at non-increment tournaments when rounds were scheduled too close together. It’s more about proper scheduling than what sort of time control is used.
i can point to 3 or 4 times where it has happened. i have the games in my online library. the higher rated player does not wish to give a few rating points in locked opposite color bishop ending this is scares me about 90 inc 30
I recently ran a list of popular time controls by ratings system, and there were a number of delay time controls for the online ratings system, perhaps this explains why some organizers are using them.
Delayed games due to increment or scheduling? Consider rule 18: The adjournment of the game.
I suspect that just telling the players that if their game isn’t over in 5 minutes (or whatever number you think appropriate) you will adjourn it and force them to play it out at some later inconvenient (for them) time will probably induce the players to conclude the game quickly.
I used to share this opinion, but the last time I tried to put it into practice, at least one player in each of the 3 (1st-round) games to be adjourned vigorously protested, on the grounds that they had already taken a 3rd-round bye, were therefore planning to leave for the day immediately after the conclusion of the 2nd round, and were therefore not going to be around to play any adjournment. And none of them were willing to just call their game a draw. We ended up delaying the start of round 2 so they could finish their games.
However, this was at least partly our own fault (I will share it with the organizer) for setting time controls longer than the round schedule allowed, and counting on adjournments to bail us out if games didn’t finish on time. I will never make that mistake again. Since then, we make the time controls short enough to guarantee that all games will finish well before the start of the next round, and we don’t do adjournments anymore (nor do we ever need to). Adjournments are problematic anyway these days, when just about everyone has a computer in their pocket (and those like me who don’t would be at a tremendous disadvantage).
As for Birdman’s problem (higher-rated players – or theoretically any player – refusing to accept that a dead draw is a dead draw), I would think the online format is uniquely capable of solving this problem by force. In a short time control, players aren’t keeping score, so repetitions and 50-move rule are hard to claim (where’s the proof?), but can’t the software just make those claims automatically? And couldn’t the software also declare dead draws (such as Birdman’s example of a locked opposite color bishop endgame) to be draws? Isn’t that one of the advantages of the online format?
Which of the online playing sites do delay time controls?
These are the most frequent time controls by ratings system since 2016, this only includes events where all games are listed as having been at the same time control.
It appears I initially included B (OTB blitz) twice and left out 5 (ONL-B), that has been corrected.
[code]OTB regular only:
sec_rtgsys sec_time_ctl count
R G/90;+30 3909
R G/90;d5 3762
R G/70;d5 2861
R G/75;d5 2209
R G/120;d5 1716
R G/85;d5 1004
R G/80;d5 862
R G/60;+30 785
R G/100;d5 634
R G/60;d10 628
R G/60;+10 582
R 40/90,SD/30;+30 551
R G/65;d10 504
R 30/90,SD/30;d5 445
R 40/80,15/30;d0 428
R G/65;d5 415
R 30/90,SD/60;d5 392
R G/61;d5 361
R 40/90,SD/30;d5 343
R G/115;d5 338
R 40/90,SD/30;d10 299
R G/100;d10 295
R 40/100,SD/30;d10 278
R G/100;+30 253
R 40/120,SD/30;d10 233
R G/90;+5 222
R G/70;d10 212
R G/90;d10 210
R 40/120,SD/30;d5 206
R 40/120,SD/60;d5 186
R G/60;+6 134
R G/75;+15 133
R G/75;+5 131
R 40/80,SD/30;d5 128
R G/120;d10 127
R 45/90,SD/30;d5 123
R 40/90,SD/60;d5 110
R G/80;d10 108
OTB Dual Rated:
sec_rtgsys sec_time_ctl count
D G/30;d5 31708
D G/25;d5 24465
D G/45;d5 10556
D G/40;d5 7865
D G/60;d5 7333
D G/30;d0 6171
D G/55;d5 2161
D G/25;+5 1932
D G/35;d5 1745
D G/30;+5 1226
D G/60;+5 695
D G/50;d5 654
D G/45;d0 530
D G/25;+10 479
D G/60;d0 467
D G/30;d10 411
D G/45;+5 400
D G/40;d0 298
D G/45;+15 215
D G/30;+10 202
D G/45;d10 169
D G/40;+10 148
D G/55;+5 134
D G/50;+15 134
D G/45;+10 132
D G/35;d0 115
D G/30;+30 115
OTB quick-only:
sec_rtgsys sec_time_ctl count
Q G/20;d3 1616
Q G/15;d0 1378
Q G/10;d5 1158
Q G/20;d5 932
Q G/15;d3 857
Q G/10;+2 717
Q G/15;d5 646
Q G/24;d5 448
Q G/24;+5 440
Q G/10;d2 396
Q G/15;+10 335
Q G/25;d3 284
Q G/20;d0 272
Q G/25;+4 260
Q G/10;d3 248
Q G/29;d0 213
Q G/10;+5 201
Q G/15;d2 172
Q G/5;d10 168
Q G/15;+5 163
Q G/25;d4 152
Q G/15;+2 124
Q G/25;d0 122
OTB Blitz:
sec_rtgsys sec_time_ctl count
B G/5;d0 4682
B G/3;+2 1641
B G/5;d2 905
B G/10;d0 766
B G/3;d2 503
B G/5;d5 367
B G/5;d3 200
B G/5;+3 190
B G/5;d1 83
B G/5;+2 72
B G/8;d0 43
B G/7;d3 41
B G/5;+0 40
Online-Regular Rated:
sec_rtgsys sec_time_ctl count
S G/25;+5 1205
S G/30;+5 1080
S G/25;d5 448
S G/45;+5 277
S G/40;+5 218
S G/45;+10 176
S G/90;+30 170
S G/60;+10 142
S G/30;d0 135
S G/30;+10 122
S G/30;d5 113
S G/60;+5 96
S G/75;+10 85
S G/40;+10 74
S G/45;+15 67
S G/45;d5 62
S G/30;+0 59
Online-Quick:
sec_rtgsys sec_time_ctl count
4 G/15;+10 1796
4 G/20;d0 1148
4 G/15;+5 742
4 G/12;+3 454
4 G/10;+5 433
4 G/10;d2 402
4 G/20;+5 359
4 G/15;+2 334
4 G/15;+3 267
4 G/15;+1 239
4 G/10;+2 233
4 G/20;d5 216
4 G/10;+3 203
4 G/15;d0 187
4 G/25;+3 170
4 G/20;d3 112
4 G/15;d5 87
4 G/15;d10 83
4 G/20;+3 74
4 G/25;+4 66
Online-Blitz:
sec_rtgsys sec_time_ctl count
5 G/3;+2 1104
5 G/10;+0 727
5 G/5;+0 634
5 G/5;+2 393
5 G/5;d0 146
5 G/5;+3 146
5 G/10;d0 137
5 G/7;+2 35
5 G/5;+1 27
5 G/5;+5 23
5 G/9;+0 21
5 G/6;+0 12
5 G/3;d2 9
5 G/7;+0 6
5 G/8;+2 5
5 G/5;d1 4
5 G/4;+2 3
5 G/5;d2 3
5 G/8;d2 2
5 G/3;+3 2
5 G/8;+0 2
5 G/3;+5 1
5 G/5;d3 1
5 G/8;d0 1
5 G/6;d0 1
5 G/7;+3 1
5 G/10;D0 1
5 G/5;d5 1
5 G/8;+1 1
[/code]
Here are the affiliates who have submitted 10 or more ONL events with delay time controls (including d0) mostly since early 2020 when we authorized all affiliates to submit online events.
We don’t know what online system hosted these events, that’s not part of the information provided when rating events.
[code]tnmt_affilid memlnfn sec_rtgsys sec_time_ctl count
A6033850 NEW YORK CITY CHESS INC. 4 G/20;d0 1067
A7238879 PREMIER CHESS ACADEMY CORPORATION 4 G/10;d2 415
A6047693 IMPACT COACHING NETWORK S G/25;d5 274
A6047598 CHESSTRONICS 4 G/20;d5 148
A6054443 HERMOVENEXT FOUNDATION INC 4 G/15;d0 118
A6033850 NEW YORK CITY CHESS INC. 4 G/20;d3 86
A6053942 COPPELL CHESS CLUB 4 G/15;d10 65
A6052577 CHESS KNIGHTS ACADEMY 5 G/10;d0 59
A6040396 CHARLOTTE CHESS NETWORK S G/30;d0 49
A6037482 THINK AHEAD CHESS 4 G/20;d5 43
H6014810 INTERNATIONAL CHESS ACADEMY, LLC S G/30;d5 41
A6052541 DOWNRIVER CHESS CLUB 4 G/11;d0 41
A6047693 IMPACT COACHING NETWORK S G/45;d5 40
H6023330 CHESS KIDS NY S G/30;d0 39
A6038580 SHOREVIEW CHESS S G/25;d5 39
A6047693 IMPACT COACHING NETWORK S G/50;d5 37
A6037482 THINK AHEAD CHESS S G/30;d5 37
A6055473 GMPREP 4 G/10;d3 36
A6030336 MONMOUTH CHESS SCHOOL AND CLUB 4 G/15;d5 36
A6037482 THINK AHEAD CHESS S G/25;d5 35
A6044693 ARLINGTON CHESS CLUB 5 G/5;d0 33
A6033850 NEW YORK CITY CHESS INC. 4 G/25;d5 29
A6052577 CHESS KNIGHTS ACADEMY 4 G/15;d0 28
A6055871 SAM SCHENK CHESS TOURNAMENTS 5 G/5;d0 26
A6052577 CHESS KNIGHTS ACADEMY 4 G/20;d3 25
A6053660 CHESS KLUB S G/30;d0 25
A6047598 CHESSTRONICS S G/25;d5 23
A6048868 DIPLOMAT CHESS 4 G/10;d5 23
A6055535 BARBOSA ELITE SCHOOL OF CHESS 4 G/20;d0 23
H6040918 LIVINGSTON SCHOLASTIC CHESS TOURNAMENTS LLC S G/25;d5 21
H6014810 INTERNATIONAL CHESS ACADEMY, LLC S G/45;d5 21
A6053298 64SQUARES S G/30;d3 19
T5008395 MICHIGAN CHESS ASSOCIATION 5 G/10;d0 19
A6037482 THINK AHEAD CHESS S G/40;d5 19
A7807787 THE JACKALOPE CHESS CLUB 5 G/5;d0 18
H6026021 MAGNUS CHESS ACADEMY 4 G/10;d1 18
A6030336 MONMOUTH CHESS SCHOOL AND CLUB 4 G/18;d5 14
A5028582 US CHESS FEDERATION S G/25;d5 14
A6037482 THINK AHEAD CHESS 4 G/15;d5 14
H6029791 ON THE CHESS BOARD 4 G/20;d5 13
H6047321 FALLON MIDDLE SCHOOL 5 G/10;d0 13
A5012961 SAN DIEGO CHESS CLUB 4 G/10;d10 10
A6008140 PROGRESS WITH CHESS S G/30;d5 10[/code]
How do you accomplish that? Remember, there is no longer a 175-move rule.
An equivalent question would be, what assumptions are you making regarding the number of moves a game will last? If that number is finite, what do you do if the game goes longer than that?
I prefer the Smythe Draconian method, somewhat similar to the Kashdan method, only meaner. Walk up to a long game in progress, pause the clock, and announce, “Players, I am not adjourning this game, but it is time to make pairings for the next round. Accordingly, I must assume a result for pairing purposes. If either of you offers a draw within the next five minutes” (on the wall clock, not the chess clock) “and tells me about it, I will pair that player as a draw and the opponent as a win. If both players offer (or accept) a draw, I will declare the game over, drawn. Either player not offering a draw will be allowed no time between games, and must begin their next game as soon as this game ends. OK, you may now resume your game.” Restart the clock, walk away, wait five minutes, then pair the next round.
That should fix the wagons of whichever player(s) is/are stalling.
Bill Smythe
For one thing, we do not use increment time controls. All of our tournaments are sudden death with 5-second delay. So the number of moves is irrelevant. If the TC is G/120 d5 and the round starts are 5 hours apart (or even 4-1/2 hours), it’s virtually impossible for a game not to finish before the next round. It takes a lot of moves for 5-second delays to add up to much (especially since the full delay is not used on every move). And there is still a 50-move rule and a repetition rule, which help to limit the number of moves. I’m not going to lose any sleep worrying about games that go 360 moves or more – I have only ever seen one game go that long, and that was in a scholastic tournament where both players were pretty much blitzing for most of the game. That game was over with plenty of time to spare before the next round.
The dilemma you pose is a real possibility with increment time controls, which is one reason why I strongly prefer delay (and delay of no more than 5 seconds per move). It makes the maximum length of games so much more predictable.
When I still did adjournments, my procedure was much like yours. But in the situation I described, I was in a bind no matter what I did. I will put my foot down when necessary, but I’m reluctant to do things that result in multiple players being angry with me (and legitimately so). It’s not good for future tournament attendance. And, as I mentioned in my previous post, the ubiquity of computers makes adjournments problematic anyway. It’s long past time that we did away with them.
online here’s what happened: 15 inc 5, 135 moves, average lag 1 sec., so really 15 inc 6. there are still some pawn moves left. good players can come up with ok moves.
OK, fair enough. I think the difference between 5 seconds and 30 seconds is a bigger factor than the difference between delay and increment, though.
Bill Smythe