In a sudden death time control, if one of the players is under five minutes, either player can stop notating under US Chess rules. In this scenario, can you have someone else notate for you, as long as you don’t use the scoresheet for any type of assistance or try to make a claim with the scoresheet? A player at a tournament I ran claimed you can’t as he said this is still “assistance”.
I don’t see why not, but the aide shouldn’t get any special privileges not accorded to any other spectator. I.e. he should stay far enough away from the game not to annoy the players and shouldn’t say ANYTHING to either player while the game was in progress. Only when the game is over can he share his possibly incomplete scoresheet.
Alex Relyea
I have even seen TDs do this. If the game is vital enough to the event, then a complete record is wanted and will be useful when making an article about it.
Larry S. Cohen
He can say anything he wants, that does not make it true. Just what assistance does the player think is happening here? None as far as I can tell. The game score by a bystander counts as nothing–it is unofficial. It can’t be used as anything until the game is finished.
Agreed, as long as the bystander is keeping score on a separate scoresheet, and the player is not allowed to look at the bystander’s scoresheet (nor to otherwise communicate with the bystander) until the game is over.
If the player asks a bystander to keep score, on the same scoresheet the player had been using, then a whole new can of worms opens up. At the very least, the player would have to be prohibited from looking at the scoresheet once the bystander has written anything on it. And this would be true even if (especially if) the bystander is a teammate, parent, or coach.
Bill Smythe
At the very least, the player would have to be prohibited from looking at the scoresheet once the bystander has written anything on it. And this would be true even if (especially if) the bystander is a teammate, parent, or coach.
Bill Smythe
Smythe Dakota
Can we take this a step further? What if the player DOES at some point look at the scoresheet after a bystander has written on it - this would then, or would it be considered an aide? If only moves made are recorded by the bystander - would this violation then be grounds for forfeiture?
Rob Jones
Could be. For example:
- If the player is hoping for a draw by the 50-move rule, and knows the 50-move count started at move 22, he might find out from the bystander’s scoresheet whether he has yet reached move 72.
- Or, in an event with two time controls, he might find out that he has reached move 40, giving him knowledge that he can safely stop blitzing.
I guess it would be up to the arbiter to figure out whether the player likely received aid from the bystander’s scoresheet. If so, a forfeit (or other penalty) might be in order. If not, the arbiter might let the player off with a warning, and perhaps request that the bystander stand farther away from the table.
Of course, YMMV.
Bill Smythe
I’m not actually sure if this is against the rules now but I know there was a time when it definitely was.
At the 1972 Pan Am Intercollegiate, I got in extreme time pressure and had to stop keeping score. One of my team-mates started keeping score for me. The Chief TD of the event, Seth Hawkins (how many of you remember that name?) came to the board and forfeited me on the spot.
In an amusing follow-up to this incident, a couple of rounds later I was playing against Ben Nethercot (how many of you remember that name?), who later went on to become of the country’s leading NTDs. He got in time pressure and one of his team-mates started keeping score for him. The guy who had tried doing that for me literally ran from the room, found Hawkins and dragged him back to my game, where he immediately forfeited Nethercot. As I recall, that point gave us the match.
– Hal Terrie
I remember both of those names very well, but I don’t remember that incident.
To say the least, it’s not at all clear that the ruling was correct. Seth Hawkins had his way with the rules sometimes.
At a similar tournament, a few years earlier, I had an adjourned game against an expert. The adjournment was to be played early the next morning, before the regular morning round.
In the evening before the scheduled adjournment, my opponent approached me and told me what his sealed move had been, and suggested that I could resign and save us both a couple hours of sleep the next morning.
We then set up the adjourned position, and I readily agreed that the sealed move in question was a crusher. My opponent and I then went to Seth Hawkins together, and I told him I’d like to resign the game on the condition that the sealed move was what my opponent had told me it was. And my opponent agreed to waive his right to keep the sealed move sealed, i.e. to allow the envelope to be opened on the spot so that I could verify it and resign.
This seemed like a sensible idea to both my opponent and me, but Seth Hawkins at first refused. “Oh, my, this is highly irregular.” But then we arm-twisted him a little more, pointing out that neither of us would be harmed by this mutual suggestion. He eventually agreed, and I resigned, but I could still hear Seth Hawkins muttering “irregular” and “bad precedent” on the way out the door.
When one teammate asks another to keep score, it can seem like an attempt to solicit illegal assistance. So the players ought to have the good sense to be careful. For example, the player should hold onto his original scoresheet, and ask the teammate to keep score on a separate piece of paper. And perhaps clear it with the TD, who should caution the players that the teammate’s scoresheet is for later record-keeping only and cannot be used to make claims, and that there should be no further communication between the two of them during the game.
Bill Smythe
Do not write on the table (what is written is visible to the player - even if you are 10 feet down the table it is often “obviously” visible to the player according to the opponent’s coach).
Do not write anywhere the player can see you (the speed with which you write is “obviously” a signal to the player indicating your analysis of the position).
Do not write in a way that is distracting to the opponent.
The IL High School Assn (IHSA) explicitly allowed a deputy to take notation (not usable for claims and to be done standing behind a player) during time trouble but had issues that resulted in that no longer being allowed starting this school year. (IHSA only allows taking notation for players with a temporary or permanent disability)
At the scholastic Nationals spectators are not allowed so the issue will not come up.
And I assume that coaches, parents, and teammates who have finished their own games are considered spectators.
Bill Smythe
Correct
To further make the point, one could ask (assuming cameras are allowed in the hall) what assistance it would be to a player if someone took a video of the end of the game. Same deal.
What about those who, for religious reasons, have an assistant writing down his moves? During the game the player may check his scoresheet to see how many moves he has made. When the player is under 5 minutes on his clock, what then? What is the role of the assistant and what should his behavior be? Must he move aside, stop writing the moves down, or exactly what is he supposed to do? Does it matter if there is increment rather than delay being used? What is FIDE’s accommodation for religious players?
What about electronic notation devices? May a player pass it over to a friend to complete the notation when his is under 5 minutes?
What if the player wants to use two notation means, one electronic, one the official approved paper scoresheet; which one can he stop using first when he is in time pressure?
Rule 35 already allows the assistant to give such aid for physical issues and the scoresheet is available for religious issues (note that both players are allowed an assistant if one player needs one).
I’ll let a FIDE mavin answer this
No. And that is H-E-double-hockey-sticks No if it is not the final time control since the player is supposed to catch up the scoresheet on his own time after time control is reached.
The non-official one (assuming the TD allows both - I have seen players use both a tournament-supplied monroi and a tournament-supplied carbon scoresheet, in which case both are approved and either may be stopped first with the organizer probably preferring that the monroi be maintained longer so that the position can be displayed on a screen).