# Is National Youth Action only quick rated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Running Chess Tournaments\ **Created:** [October 29, 2009, 11:59pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254 "2009-10-29T23:59:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sloan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/sloan/32/83_2.png) [@sloan](https://forum.uschess.org/u/sloan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254/21 "2009-11-01T23:31:21Z")
> [@Grant Perks](#): > > I fail to see where stating that G/25+5 is dual rated is any more confusing than stating that G/30 is dual rated. It’s confusing because according to the rules, G/25 with a 5 second delay is NOT ratable under the Regular rating system. It’s always “confusing” to make false statements. ---
**Author:** ![Smythe\_Dakota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee59a6/32.png) [@Smythe\_Dakota](https://forum.uschess.org/u/Smythe_Dakota)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254/22 "2009-11-01T23:39:37Z")
> [@anjiaoshi](#): > > … Who imposes penalties on games that use time delay? If there’s any prevailing bias out there, it’s against games that don’t (e.g., the “digital is always preferred over analog” rule … To be sure, the bias within USCF is to prefer delay over non-delay. However, this thread started out discussing the bias within FIDE to prefer increment over delay. It’s a completely different horse. Bill Smythe ---
**Author:** ![Grant\_Perks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f04885/32.png) [@Grant\_Perks](https://forum.uschess.org/u/Grant_Perks)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 9:04am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254/23 "2009-11-02T09:04:34Z")
> [@sloan](#): > > It’s confusing because according to the rules, G/25 with a 5 second delay is NOT ratable under the Regular rating system. > > It’s always “confusing” to make false statements. I understand that. My post was in response to Mr. Nolan’s statement that the proposed change to allow G/25 with a 5 second delay would add confusion. ---
**Author:** ![nolan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/nolan/32/174_2.png) [@nolan](https://forum.uschess.org/u/nolan)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254/24 "2009-11-02T16:32:17Z")
What happens, Grant, when a tournament is advertised as G/25+5s delay and someone shows up without a delay-capable clock? How much time does that person get? If it is less than 30 minutes, then it doesn’t seem reasonable to dual-rate that event. BTW, Bill, THIS thread started out talking about the National Youth Action, another thread was talking about FIDE issues. ---
**Author:** ![Akzidenz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/akzidenz/32/729_2.png) [@Akzidenz](https://forum.uschess.org/u/Akzidenz)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254/25 "2009-11-03T17:07:22Z")
> [@Grant Perks](#): > > Making G/25+5 dual rated will end the duel and confusion over the time deduction. We will also see fewer analog clocks in use. Then we could do away with 14(H). Ummmm…what about those of us who are happily running g/29 delay 3 tournaments, quick-rated only? Don’t you go messing us up, OK? 😈 As a side note and a consideration for future years, it might be an asset, not a liaibility, for the NYA to be quick-rated, as I don’t believe the USCF has a youth championship that is quick-rated only. But I (and my kid chess player, who refuses to play g/30) are in the minority on that. Most kids like g/30 and it’s a popular scholastic format in these parts. ---
**Author:** ![bioniclime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f17d59/32.png) [@bioniclime](https://forum.uschess.org/u/bioniclime)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254/26 "2009-11-03T17:09:20Z")
> [@nolan](#): > > Not sure what you’re referring to, Bill. The current rules are IMHO unambiguous. > > The following applies to the advertised time control, ignoring any adjustment of clock time based the type of clock being used. > > 1. If the total time per player is less than 5 minutes, the event is NOT RATABLE. > 2. If there are 16 or more seconds of increment or delay, the event is REGULAR RATED ONLY. > 3. If the total time per player is 61 minutes or longer, the event is REGULAR RATED ONLY. > 4. If the total time per player is at least 5 minutes but less than 30 minutes, the event is QUICK RATED ONLY. > 5. If none of the above apply (which also means that the total time per player is between 30 and 60 minutes, inclusively), the event is DUAL RATED. > > These are the rules, though organizers and/or TDs seem to be very creative about interpreting them. There are also organizers and/or TDs who have admitted mis-reporting the time control in order to get an event rated under a specific rating system. Am I misinterpreting something? If it is a 20 minutes + a 20 second delay, by (2) it is REGULAR only, but by (4) it is QUICK only. What am I missing? ---
**Author:** ![nolan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/nolan/32/174_2.png) [@nolan](https://forum.uschess.org/u/nolan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254/27 "2009-11-03T17:15:57Z")
The first rule that applies is as far as you need to go. ---
**Author:** ![glennpan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@glennpan](https://forum.uschess.org/u/glennpan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254/28 "2009-11-03T17:21:17Z")
Can we please change the name of this thread? Or at least split it off. This thread ceased being about the NYA quite some time ago. ---
**Author:** ![chesschick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bcef8e/32.png) [@chesschick](https://forum.uschess.org/u/chesschick)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254/29 "2009-11-04T23:31:05Z")
> [@nolan](#): > > Not sure what you’re referring to, Bill. The current rules are IMHO unambiguous. > > The following applies to the advertised time control, ignoring any adjustment of clock time based the type of clock being used. > > 1. If the total time per player is less than 5 minutes, the event is NOT RATABLE. Unless you are WCL and running an Online Grand Prix, then you can rate blitz with a G/3 with 2 sec time delay as quick. ---
**Author:** ![nolan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/nolan/32/174_2.png) [@nolan](https://forum.uschess.org/u/nolan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 6:56am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254/30 "2009-11-05T06:56:16Z")
Is WCL still doing that? I guess that falls under the ‘golden rule’. ---
**Author:** ![chesschick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bcef8e/32.png) [@chesschick](https://forum.uschess.org/u/chesschick)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254/31 "2009-11-05T20:35:39Z")
> [@nolan](#): > > Is WCL still doing that? I guess that falls under the ‘golden rule’. Yes, and understood. 😒 ---
**Author:** ![sloan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/sloan/32/83_2.png) [@sloan](https://forum.uschess.org/u/sloan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254/32 "2009-11-05T22:36:37Z")
> [@chesschick](#): > > > [@nolan](#): > > > > Is WCL still doing that? I guess that falls under the ‘golden rule’. > > Yes, and understood. 😒 If they are still doing that, and if I understand all the facts correctly (always a questionable assumption), then either Mike’s program is broken or some TD is filing false reports. In my opinion, the EB should consider that either of the above “workarounds” are unacceptable in the long run. It would be better for the EB to formally allow such events, if that is their intention. If it is _not_ their intention, then they should direct the Office to enforce the rules - most particularly the rules about filing false reports (if, indeed, that is happening). ---
**Author:** ![nolan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/nolan/32/174_2.png) [@nolan](https://forum.uschess.org/u/nolan)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 5:35am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254/33 "2009-11-06T05:35:19Z")
Try validating a QR event with a time control of Game/3, Ken. ---
**Author:** ![ESchlich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@ESchlich](https://forum.uschess.org/u/ESchlich)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 12:44pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254/34 "2009-11-07T12:44:01Z")
Bill Smythe considered dual rating G/25 with 5 second delay. For what its worth, I ran a G/30 event at the club a few weeks ago. Did not have the 5 minutes deducted. I had several players request I change the time control to G/29 so it would not be rated in the regular system. I suspect that we have a significant difference of opinion among our players as to the desirability of rating even something like G/40 in the regular system. I’m not advocating an upward change of where we rate for regular ratings but think many of our players would not want G/25 rated as regular regardless of the added time unless perhaps it were increment. Regards, Ernie ---
**Author:** ![nolan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/nolan/32/174_2.png) [@nolan](https://forum.uschess.org/u/nolan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254/35 "2009-11-07T18:48:59Z")
Where are Bill Goichberg’s surveys when we really need them? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Smythe\_Dakota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee59a6/32.png) [@Smythe\_Dakota](https://forum.uschess.org/u/Smythe_Dakota)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 2:08am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254/36 "2009-11-08T02:08:45Z")
Apparently Steve Immitt runs G/30 (reduced to G/25 with a 5-second delay) as regular-rated because his players actually want their games regular-rated. Bill Smythe ---
**Author:** ![chessoffice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c68b51/32.png) [@chessoffice](https://forum.uschess.org/u/chessoffice)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 5:14am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254/37 "2009-11-11T05:14:12Z")
> [@nolan](#): > > Where are Bill Goichberg’s surveys when we really need them? 🙂 Haven’t surveyed whether players want time controls of about G/30 rated as regular or quick, but I experimented with some events that had identical details years ago except that some were G/30, regular rated and others G/29, quick rated. The regular rated G/30s drew quite a bit better than the quick rated G/29s. Bill Goichberg ---
**Author:** ![nolan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/nolan/32/174_2.png) [@nolan](https://forum.uschess.org/u/nolan)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 5:26am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254/38 "2009-11-11T05:26:58Z")
Perhaps if it was truly ‘years ago’ the results would be quite different today? ---
**Author:** ![Smythe\_Dakota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee59a6/32.png) [@Smythe\_Dakota](https://forum.uschess.org/u/Smythe_Dakota)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 8:44am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254/39 "2009-11-11T08:44:35Z")
> [@chessoffice](#): > > … I experimented with some events that had identical details … except that some were G/30, regular rated and others G/29, quick rated. … That’s the best way to run a survey. Instead of finding out what players say they would prefer, find out what they actually prefer when they vote with their feet. Bill Smythe ---
**Author:** ![Smythe\_Dakota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee59a6/32.png) [@Smythe\_Dakota](https://forum.uschess.org/u/Smythe_Dakota)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2009, 9:01am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254/40 "2009-11-11T09:01:15Z")
A while ago (in this thread) we were talking about the possibility of having an event regular-rated if the main time in minutes, plus the delay time in seconds, added up to at least 30. > [@In response](#): > > … what about those of us who are happily running g/29 delay 3 tournaments, quick-rated only? Don’t you go messing us up, OK? … Hmm, good point. OK then, how about the following: A tournament should be regular-rateable if either A. The main time is at least 30 minutes, or B. The main time is at least 25 minutes and the announced delay is at least 5 seconds. The point of the word “announced” is that games played with analog clocks would still be played at G/25 and still be regular-rateable. TDs would be allowed to apply a 5-minute deduction (in games played with the delay) only if the (pre-deduction) main time were at least 30 minutes. Bill Smythe [Previous page](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.uschess.org/t/is-national-youth-action-only-quick-rated/11254.md?page=3)