On the National K-12 Website it states the December Supplement will be used. Where you register the kids it says the November Supplement will be used.
According to the USCF rules:
12.4 If the main event begins before the 10th of the month, the previous month’s rating supplement will be used. If the main event begins on or after the 10th of the month, that month’s rating supplement will be used. The intent is that the earliest entry deadline will be about a week after the publication of the new rating supplement or when MSA is updated.
As I read this, the December supplement should be used without question. You need to change the registration page as some people may be confused.
It seems inconsistent. Were there any revisions in August 2008?
“If the main event begins on or after the 10th of the month, that month’s rating supplement will be used.”
would seem to imply the December supplement.
However, with the first advance entry date being Nov 14,
“The intent is that the earliest entry deadline will be about a week after the publication of the new rating supplement or when MSA is updated.”
would seem to imply the November supplement.
It seems that the USCF is going with the intent, as it now reads:
“CORRECTION: November, not December, Rating Supplement will be used.” at: main.uschess.org/tournaments/2007/k12/
I know the rule from the rulebook Mike (my name is on the cover). That was not my point. The scholastic committee’s constant circumvention of both the rulebook and the delegates was my point.
Not likely, except for participants whose eligibility for a different section would be affected.
Sure, if you’re just below the middle, you’ll play a top player in round 1 and probably lose, whereas if you’re just above the middle, you’ll play a fish and probably win. But in round 2, you’ll play an easier (respectively tougher) opponent, and end up at 1-1 anyway.
Regardless of what rating is used for you, if you want to win the event, you’ll have to play the toughest opponents sooner or later. Or, if you’re really weak, you’ll end up near the bottom no matter what.
Initial rating makes a lot less difference in the final standings than most players realize. Quit worrying about it and just play chess.
I think it can make a bigger difference, especially for the top few players in a section. I’ve noticed a BIG difference in my opponents when I’ve been in the top half of a large class section compared to the bottom half. It’s seemed to make about a 100 point difference in the average ratings of my opponents. If a player were to have his rating go up by a large amount from the November to December supplements, it COULD give him easier pairings.
Shouldn’t the USCF stick to its own written rules when running a tournament? If the rules clearly state (as they seem to) that the December supplement will be used, how can we use the November one instead? These are OUR rules for scholastic tournaments – we should follow them!
Bill Smythe,
Your post seems to be of quite a negative tone. This thread isn’t about “playing fish” or being a “weak player”. It’s about following the rules set previously by the uscf. The rule clearly states a national scholastic tournament started after the 10th of the month should use that months rating supplement. Why wouldn’t we want to use the most recent results available?
And the difference in seedings could simply mean playing up twice instead of 3 times. That can easily make a one point difference in total score. I don’t think you could definitively tell me that isn’t a possibility. Which does affect the outcome of the tournament.
and “Not likely, except for participants whose eligibility for a different section would be affected.”
What about those kids who could be in a lower section with the December supplement? Maybe they could win an under 1000 section at a national championship. I’m sure they would be happy the rules were followed.
Bill isn’t being negative…he’s just outlining that a youth must still win games regardless of his/her section. And hey…what if it’s one of your youth gets to “play down?” Cool, go win a trophy!
Here’s the deal: send an email to Jerry Nash and get the official word from the office on which supplement will be used. If it’s not to your liking, then escalate to the Scholastic Committee.
In the meantime…ignore the forum kibbitzing to keep your blood pressure low
If I seem negative, it’s not because I think rules should be ignored. Of course, USCF (and the scholastic committee) should follow their own rules, and shame on them if they don’t.
What bothers me is the attitude of some players, and some coaches, that the best course is to play in the weakest possible sections, and score well by avoiding stronger opponents, rather than by meeting them head on and learning from their mistakes.
The most successful kids didn’t get that way through ratings manipulation and selective opponent exclusion. They got that way by becoming better players and by considering a strong opponent to be a challenge rather than a threat.
I’ve asked Mike Nietman to look at this thread on behalf of the Scholastic Council, and I copied Bill Hall, Pat Knight and Bill Goichberg on that email. I can’t answer the questions raised regarding the regulations, but the tournament registration template is currently set to use the November 2008 supplement for that event.
Jerry Nash is also aware of the issue, but I think the definitive answer (to the extent that such an answer exists) may need to come from someone on the Scholastic Council.
