Answer: No, because the Queen did not touch the square of promotion (c8).
Irrelevant – White loses on time.
Of course not. Either way, Black can move his King to get out of check.
Anyone taking bets on that?
g8=Q is not a legal move, so this is irrelevant. Placing the piece on the promotion square is akin to touch move. Touching a piece you can’t move is just ignored. On the other hand, one can argue that by touching g8 with the Queen, white is making an illegal move with its appropriate penalty. However, it’s still moot unless white hits his clock to complete the illegal move.
Yes, white IS required to play c8Q! Not because he touched the queen, but because it’s his only legal move!
Edited to note white must play c8, but may promote to any piece.
Let’s change it slightly.
W: Ka8, Pe7, Pg7, Pc4
B: Ka6, Rd8
Note that ed=Q is stalemate.
While I try to come up with a correct and complete answer to sloan’s original question, let me inject a little snark here by suggesting the following scenario in the position above:
White plays e7xd8, removes his hand from the pawn on d8, then reaches for an off-the-board queen but does not get as far as touching the queen to any square. Then, realizing that e7xd8=Q is stalemate, he then puts down the queen and reaches instead for an off-the-board bishop, releases it on d8 replacing the pawn, and presses his clock. His elated opponent squeals “That’s still stalemate. YAY!!!”
That ought to give the spectators a good laugh.
Bill Smythe
Reasonable answer #1: No. g7-g8=Q is not a legal move. Therefore, touching an off-board queen to g8 incurs no obligation. (Analogously, touching an on-board piece that has no legal move incurs no obligation. The phrase “if legal” in the promotion rule establishes the analogy.)
Reasonable answer #2: Yes. By picking up an off-board queen, the player has indicated an intent to promote to a queen. Therefore, he is obligated to promote to a queen if legal.
My opinion: One must be careful not to go too hog-wild with the concept of “intent”. In this case, answer #2 is just too much of a stretch. So let’s go along with the more literal answer #1.
All of the above applies both to “variation a” and “variation b”.
Reasonable answer #1: No, but he has not completed a legal move, so (a) he has lost the game by time forfeit (FIDE), or (b) he will lose the game by time forfeit as soon as his opponent points it out (USCF).
Far-fetched answer #2: Yes, because by touching the queen to g8, the player has indicated an intent to promote on g8, so he no longer has the option to play c7-c8. Thus, he is in check with no legal move, which is the definition of checkmate. (Why couldn’t white play Qg8xe8? Because after g7-g8=Q, it is black’s move!)
Reasonable answer #1: No, because after c7-c8=Q (a) white is not in check, and (b) it is black’s move, and (c) black has other options besides Rxc8.
Factually incorrect answer #2: Yes, because after c7-c8=Q, black’s only legal move is Rxc8, which is checkmate.
Note that, if we add white pawns at b4, c4, and c5 –
– then answer #2 is no longer factually incorrect. In fact, after c7-c8=Q, the position is both (a) win-excluded for white and (b) draw-excluded, because there does not exist a sequence of legal moves that results in either (a) white checkmating black or (b1) stalemate or (b2) a repetition of the current position or (b3) a repetition of any possible future position. This leads to a logical extension of the FIDE dead-position rule. The existing dead-position rule says that, when a position arises that is both win-excluded for white and win-excluded for black, then the game has already ended, as a draw, regardless of any subsequent moves, claims, agreements, time expirations, etc. The logical extension would say that, when a position arises that is both win-excluded for white and draw-excluded, then the game has already ended, as a win for black.
The only answer: No, because (with or without the extra white pawns) white would still have the option to promote to a knight.
Please don’t. I’m interested in your response here.
Bill Smythe
Bill - I don’t think any of my questions hinged on picking up an off-board Q. They all depend on the Q touching the (possible) promotion square.
Otherwise…looks right.