Bill:
That would be a NO. The only reason would be as the limit in the reporting of the rounds. Do understand it looks as if it is a suspicion for higher certification. Your suspicion could be correct, if I was still a club director. As a local, if I was doing it to get the norms for the next level of certification: dividing the tournament would be working against the norm.
When I have the clubs’ insanity tournaments, not sure how many games there will be. If the players start around six in the afternoon, than end around two or as late as four in the morning. In theory, if the games go the full five minutes on each clock, the players should be able to get in sixty games within ten hours.
In another thread you mentioned aspirin. Port it over here, please, immediately!
Bill Smythe
Bill do you want to play a 1,000 game blitz match? You can have all the aspirin you want.
At the risk of being on topic, could someone explain how a four player round robin would have four rounds?
Also, I ran two round robin tournaments this past weekend, but when I submitted them online, it said that the only option was to submit it as a swiss. Was I missing something?
Alex Relyea
Player A: 1 = X 2 = 1-2 3 = 3-1 4 = 1-4
Player B: 1 = 1-2 2 = X 3 = 2-3 4 = 4-2
Player C: 1 = 3-1 2 = 2-3 3 = X 4 = 3-4
Player D: 1 = 1-4 2 = 4-2 3 = 3-4 4 = X
Player A: 1 = X 2 = 1-2 3 = 3-1
Player B: 1 = 1-2 2 = X 3 = 2-3
Player C: 1 = 3-1 2 = 2-3 3 = X
If you have three players, the round robin will have three rounds. If you placed down three players and only two rounds, it should be rejected.
If done in a round robin format, the matrix is always square, so a quad is 4X4:
-1- -2- -3- -4-
J JONES X 1 1 1/2
2 BROWN 0 X 1 0
3 SMITH 0 0 X 0
4 NOLAN 1/2 1 1 XI’m pretty sure the online round robin entry format works, but I’ll test it sometime today. I don’t know if it works on an upload file, because I don’t know what WinTD and Swis-Sys do with RRs. (I think different versions of those programs have handled it different ways.)
I think what Doug is trying to say is that, if you take a round-robin crosstable, such as
1 X W L D
2 L X L W
3 W W X D
4 D L D X– and try to convert each column to a “round” and put it into a Swiss crosstable, you’ll get something like
1 U W2 L3 D4
2 L1 U L3 W4
3 W1 W2 U D4
4 D1 L2 D3 UOf course, this makes every result look like a cross-round pairing, but things like that never bother Doug. Most sensible people would just do it like this:
1 D4 L3 W2
2 L3 W4 L1
3 W2 W1 D4
4 D1 L2 D3Bill Smythe
I don’t think your middle example would pass validation, Bill.
I"m not very familiar with WinTD, but in Swis-Sys if you run an event as a round robin it creates the output file as if it was a Swiss, ie like your 3rd example.
If you look at section 3 of event 200507172781 you’ll see the crosstable looks like a Swiss, but I entered this event as a RR under Swis-Sys.
Is that because there are too many cross-round pairings, or because they’re not marked as such, or is there some third reason?
The example actually cross-checks, if cross-round pairings are allowed.
Bill Smythe
If your going to convert a round robin into a swiss, the code above is acceptable. My point you could be having the players question why it was converted into a swiss. If it was for a club working to get the experience requirements to for the local. If it was a game thirty or slower, the director would get one credit as chief director with four entries. If it was for a quick event, the director would get half a tournament credit, with credit with two entries. If the director reported it as a round robin, the director would not get any tournament credit.
Doug,
You have the right idea and the incorrect application of that idea.
If a Club TD directs a RR they do get credit for the number of players in that event (4 in your example); i.e., it gets added to their goal total of 50 players.
Quick events count as half credit and count for full player counts; i.e., in your example the TD still gets credit for directing 4 players in a Quick event that also counts about (but not exactly depending on how it is applied) half credit towards events directed.
Tim
If I am right Tim. They would also get credit for the entries in a match. In that case two to the total of fifty if game thirty or slower, or one to the total of fifty if game five to game twenty-nine. If the director has the tournament norms of three, only needing the entries total to be at fifty or higher. The director would only need to send in matches till the total gets at or over fifty. Wounder how many more matchs’ will be sent in?
Doug,
In the words of Dan Fielding (Night Court): “What’s your point?”
Tim
Matches were not easy to monitor under the old programming, the new programming does a better job of that.
I can make a reasonable case for counting round robin games as part of the experience requirement towards the Local or Senior level, because they can involve some situations that a Swiss would not, especially if there are unplayed games. I don’t think they should amount to more than half of the experience requirement, though.
Matches offer far fewer situations to demonstrate TD prowess, so I don’t think they should be counted towards experience requirements at all.
Well, if you have three tournaments with forty-eight entries, all you would need is two more entries. If you have a game thirty match, the match would not count but the two entries would. So if you have forty entries, all you would need is five game thirty matches. The point is this, if your only short on a few entries just have a match.
That is not what Nancy Evens (Ratings Manager) told me: “the match does not count but the entries do.” Anyway, were is Nancy?
Nancy Evans and her husband are still living in New York, but she no longer works for the USCF. She did help count the ballots in July, along with several other former USCF employees.
Under the old ratings software it would have been difficult to exclude match games from a TD’s game count. That is no longer the case under the new software, so TDCC now has the opportunity to decide whether match games should count as part of a TD’s experience or not.