# Request a 1/2 point instead of full-point bye? **URL:** \ **Category:** Running Chess Tournaments\ **Created:** [March 27, 2006, 3:28am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/request-a-1-2-point-instead-of-full-point-bye/970 "2006-03-27T03:28:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chesschick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bcef8e/32.png) [@chesschick](https://forum.uschess.org/u/chesschick)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 3:28am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/request-a-1-2-point-instead-of-full-point-bye/970/1 "2006-03-27T03:28:49Z")
Let’s say I am the lowest rated (by several hundred points) player in a small 4-round tourney. With an odd number of players, I will end up with the bye the first round. Going into round 2 with 1 pretty much guarantees me a game with an expert that I have no chance at all with. Is it legal and/or ethical to request the bye be counted as 1/2 point instead of the 1 point, so I can get a game somewhat closer to my rating in the 2nd round? There are no class prizes, so no issues there. ---
**Author:** ![nolan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/nolan/32/174_2.png) [@nolan](https://forum.uschess.org/u/nolan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 4:04am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/request-a-1-2-point-instead-of-full-point-bye/970/2 "2006-03-27T04:04:39Z")
Certainly no harm in asking. I’d probably give the half point, though I might wait until the first round ended to make the final decision. In fact I think I’ve had a situation similar to this in which I offered the odd man in the first round the choice of a full or half point bye, explaining the potential pairings that might create in round 2. ---
**Author:** ![Jedi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/839c29/32.png) [@Jedi](https://forum.uschess.org/u/Jedi)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 4:06am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/request-a-1-2-point-instead-of-full-point-bye/970/3 "2006-03-27T04:06:59Z")
If you regularly played in my tournaments and were regularly the lowest rated player and you asked for this situation I would say yes. Request a 1st round 1/2 point with the condition the TD can take it back if the bye would cause another player to have a full point bye. Sounds good to me. I don’t think its unethical. Other players always like to complain about something but would be funny to hear them complain why did she ONLY get 1/2 point instead of 1? ---
**Author:** ![nolan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/nolan/32/174_2.png) [@nolan](https://forum.uschess.org/u/nolan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 4:16am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/request-a-1-2-point-instead-of-full-point-bye/970/4 "2006-03-27T04:16:52Z")
Joshua, how would a half versus a full point bye have any impact on whether some other player gets a full point bye in the next round? ---
**Author:** ![Grant\_Perks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f04885/32.png) [@Grant\_Perks](https://forum.uschess.org/u/Grant_Perks)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 4:37am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/request-a-1-2-point-instead-of-full-point-bye/970/5 "2006-03-27T04:37:58Z")
> [@nolan](#): > > Joshua, how would a half versus a full point bye have any impact on whether some other player gets a full point bye in the next round? I believe Joshua is saying that the player should “request” a half point bye in advance of the pairings. Then, if there is an even number of players the bye request would be canceled, the player plays, and no byes are issued. In a similar case I have asked for a student to receive a zero point bye instead of a full bye. This way the player doesn’t get paired up as high in each of the remaining rounds. ---
**Author:** ![chesschick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bcef8e/32.png) [@chesschick](https://forum.uschess.org/u/chesschick)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 5:41pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/request-a-1-2-point-instead-of-full-point-bye/970/6 "2006-03-27T17:41:29Z")
Thanks all. I am hoping that this tournament ends up havning an even number. Otherwise, I will ask to be paired as a 1/2 (or possibly a zero) for round 2. ---
**Author:** ![Smythe\_Dakota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee59a6/32.png) [@Smythe\_Dakota](https://forum.uschess.org/u/Smythe_Dakota)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 11:12am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/request-a-1-2-point-instead-of-full-point-bye/970/7 "2006-03-28T11:12:13Z")
Better yet, I’m hoping your TD will use one of several possible techniques to avoid (unrequested) byes altogether – house players, cross-round pairings, etc. Maybe the TD could even play in the tournament himself, in rounds where there would otherwise be an odd number. Bill Smythe ---
**Author:** ![dmforsythe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@dmforsythe](https://forum.uschess.org/u/dmforsythe)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 1:33pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/request-a-1-2-point-instead-of-full-point-bye/970/8 "2006-03-29T13:33:21Z")
Having an odd number of players has always been a problem with me. The only time I play in my tournaments, if there is an odd number of players. Than withdraw myself if someone withdraws from the tournament. Can understand the problem of a low rated player that gets a full point bye. Even if the director does give the player a half point bye, the player can still be in the full point score group or the zero point score group. As the odds of having a draw in round one is the most uncommon. With chesschick, would have to study her rating. It could be best to give her a U (unplayed game) for the crosstables. This would be just as good as a zero point bye. Like everything, the director must study the empirical evidence before granting the 1/2 bye or zero point bye. With the pairing for round two, the director should run the pairings with a full point bye, half point bye and a zero point bye. As there are other people in the tournament, the director has to make a rational balance for all the players not just for one person. But, a half point bye or a zero point bye, should not hurt a fair balance. ---
**Author:** ![Grant\_Perks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f04885/32.png) [@Grant\_Perks](https://forum.uschess.org/u/Grant_Perks)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 2:17pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/request-a-1-2-point-instead-of-full-point-bye/970/9 "2006-03-29T14:17:56Z")
> [@dmforsythe](#): > > It could be best to give her a U (unplayed game) for the crosstables. This would be just as good as a zero point bye. Perhaps this is just semantics, but if she has an unplayed game for the first round she could end up getting assigned a full point bye later in the tournament. While the rulebook doesn’t specifically address zero point byes, the argument could be made that she should not receive another bye should she be the only person in the lowest score group. > [@dmforsythe](#): > > Like everything, the director must study the empirical evidence before granting the 1/2 bye or zero point bye. With the pairing for round two, the director should run the pairings with a full point bye, half point bye and a zero point bye. As there are other people in the tournament, the director has to make a rational balance for all the players not just for one person. But, a half point bye or a zero point bye, should not hurt a fair balance. Huh? What other times do you study empirical evidence before making a TD decision? ---
**Author:** ![dmforsythe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@dmforsythe](https://forum.uschess.org/u/dmforsythe)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 3:37pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/request-a-1-2-point-instead-of-full-point-bye/970/10 "2006-03-29T15:37:51Z")
> [@GrantPerks](#): > > > [@dmforsythe](#): > > > > It could be best to give her a U (unplayed game) for the crosstables. This would be just as good as a zero point bye. > > Perhaps this is just semantics, but if she has an unplayed game for the first round she could end up getting assigned a full point bye later in the tournament. While the rulebook doesn’t specifically address zero point byes, the argument could be made that she should not receive another bye should she be the only person in the lowest score group. Should have said grant a U for the MSA crosstable, not for the pairing program. How do you pass validation for a zero point bye? > [@dmforsythe](#): > > Like everything, the director must study the empirical evidence before granting the 1/2 bye or zero point bye. With the pairing for round two, the director should run the pairings with a full point bye, half point bye and a zero point bye. As there are other people in the tournament, the director has to make a rational balance for all the players not just for one person. But, a half point bye or a zero point bye, should not hurt a fair balance. > [@GrantPerks](#): > > Huh? > > What other times do you study empirical evidence before making a TD decision? Most of the time. ---
**Author:** ![chesschick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bcef8e/32.png) [@chesschick](https://forum.uschess.org/u/chesschick)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2006, 4:47pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/request-a-1-2-point-instead-of-full-point-bye/970/11 "2006-03-29T16:47:38Z")
Well, it looks like this is resolved. Round 1 (this is a 4-week tourney) is tonight. Right now there are 9 people registered, including the TD, but hopefully we will pick up another today. The TD is taking the bye this week, if one is necessary. So, I am off the hook for this week. Now, I just need to get a win or draw against the 1700 player that I will most likely be paired against. I have beaten him once, and our games are always extremely close. At least if I lose this week, I will have “earned” the bye next week, and the paring implications won’t be as extreme for week 3. 😉 Thanks for all the input. ---
**Author:** ![Smythe\_Dakota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee59a6/32.png) [@Smythe\_Dakota](https://forum.uschess.org/u/Smythe_Dakota)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2006, 1:06pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/request-a-1-2-point-instead-of-full-point-bye/970/12 "2006-03-30T13:06:15Z")
> [@chesschick](#): > > … The TD is taking the bye this week, if one is necessary. … If a bye is necessary again in round 2, the TD could take the bye again. Or, he could play two games simultaneously. The latter would get the TD up to speed (total number of games played so far), which would make for better pairings in round 3 should somebody else drop out and make it desirable for the TD to play in round 3. Bill Smythe ---
**Author:** ![system](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/system/32/2_2.png) [@system](https://forum.uschess.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2024, 8:39am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/request-a-1-2-point-instead-of-full-point-bye/970/13 "2024-04-22T08:39:16Z")