Score *Books*

Unless they’re being a horse’s @$$, then they need to face backwards. :stuck_out_tongue:

I always face them toward the left if I have White or to the right if I have Black - because that is the way they face in chess diagrams.

Back in the 1970s, I used to know a player who always faced his knights directly forward - until his opponent castled, at which point he would adjust the knights to face the castled king. He was a very aggressive attacking player of course.

– Hal Terrie

Back when I was using DN, my knights faced the center so that I could identify my KN or QN at any point in the game. I knew someone whose knights faced away from the center for the same reason (a KN always faced the K-side, etc).

FWIW

Yea, I dislike frivolous protests, but when it’s “your” kid it is harder to resist the parental protection instinct. That’s why I like to understand what is considered “frivolous” and what is not. I recall once when my son was playing in one of his first scholastic tournaments. He won a game and his opponent quickly reset the board and announced he won. As parents are not allowed in the playing room, my son had to locate me and tell me he was “robbed”. I approached the directors to see what happened and when my son’s opponent saw us approaching the opponent changed the score from a win to a draw. The directors said there’s nothing they could do as my son did not keep score. They don’t require score keeping in this state. I let it go as a lesson in the importance of score keeping. However, it left a foul taste in my mouth as I don’t like my son being taken advantage of. So what one calls “frivolous” takes on a whole other aspect when it’s “your” kid. So thanks for answering my post and keeping me objective! :smiley:

You’re welcome. I realized after reading your reply that what “frivolous” consists of can seem very different from a player to a parent to a TD.

My use of ‘frivolous’ was a bit hasty, intended more to convey that without further solid evidence there would be no basis in the rules to view it as a valid claim. (Further solid evidence meaning, for example, independent witnesses or TD seeing a player consulting other games or notes in the score book in such a way that the 20B recorded matter rule is violated.)

But I didn’t mean to imply such a claim or inquiry from a parent would be incorrect to ask at all. That largely depends on the moment and the situation at hand. And, as you point out, concerned parents certainly do have different standards. I think from the TDs perspective there’s a spectrum ranging from, “A claim should have been made there!” through, “How could anyone think that is any way, shape or form would violate a rule or spirit of fair play?” But a parent’s perspective can and should be different, IMVHO.

And I think it was mentioned by someone earlier, but a specific score sheet can be prescribed for the tournament (15A.) I’m not sure if recording in a second book would be considered legal or not in such a case. But it would raise a question mark in my mind if someone was writing in both. :wink:

Actually I’ve seen that happen on numerous occasions. A player chooses to keep score in his own score book, and at the same time use the score sheet provided by the organizer. That way they can turn in the required score sheet, but not have to take the time after the game to copy the moves from one place to another.

Personally if I was told I had to use their score sheet in lieu of my Mon Roi, I’d probably wait until after the game and input the moves into my unit, or straight onto my computer.

It’s funny, but I had just posted in another thread that I’ve done this – keeping score in duplicate – because I like to have all my game scores in my scorebook. :slight_smile:

Nobody has ever complained… Yet.

Well, the original questions in the other thread were inspired by this and a different recent MonRoi thread. I suppose if we get duplicated answers to slightly diferent context then duplicating scores are OK. How’s that for logic? :mrgreen:

I still think it would raise a question mark in my head. -Not that I would do anything about it without a claim of some sort, but observing it would be a Thing That Would Make Me Go Hmmm. (Just because I haven’t seen it happen, yet.)

Reading this thread just gave me an idea. Tds that have laptops that they use for pairing could get a cheap scanner and simply scan every player’s scoresheet when they record their result. The up side is you don’t have to buy carbon score sheets anymore. One would need to automate it somewhat so basically the players themselves could set the score sheets on the scanner and press a button.

When I started playing tournament chess many years ago, the best TDs supplied official USCF carbon copy scoresheets to be used and game scores were collected for verification purposes. Only the TD or one of his assistants had the authority to post a game result. I wish the USCF would rule that all organizers and TDs required the use of official USCF carbon copy scoresheets for all USCF tournaments and forbid the use of any other means of recording moves.

That strikes me as a bad idea. What of all the instances in which a player miswrites moves and has to correct them? The duplicate copy will be unreadable. Besides, duplicate paper (and I assume, despite your use of the term “carbon copy,” that you’re talking about carbonless paper – unless you’re a fan of obsolete office technology) is considerably more expensive than ordinary black-and-white copies; this is an additional cost to lay on clubs and/or players.

Whenever I miswrote a move, I just siimply wrote over the move. I write in pen. Yes, I’m talking of “carbonless” paper. As far as cost to the clubs, there would be an additional cost but no more than existed in times past. Just a normal tournament expense. I just think there are too many options available and this has posed problems in itself.

What sorts of problems?

Well, with “scorebooks”, the issue of a player making use of the scores of previously played games is certainly possible. With a single scoresheet provided by the organizer for the game this wouldn’t be an issue at the table. I’ve owned spiral bound scorebooks and while handy I can see why some people might be tempted to use them in an unethical manner. I’ve observed players leaving the game while it is not their move and taking their scorebooks with them outside of the playing area. Better to just ban them and have one blank scoresheet for each game. The use of notes during a game is already prohibited so it makes sense to add some reasonable support to the rule.

Regarding the Monroi, I don’t know enough about the device to give an opinion on its use. Perhaps it’s a reasonable tool for players with some type of disability. However, I’ve played against a few players that did have a disability. In those cases, the player had an assistant that was authorized by the TD to take score.

If you’re seriously proposing banning spiral score pads, this discussion has veered into the nonsensical.

I agree.

However, it might not be nonsensical to insist (by rule) that scorebooks remain at the table, in plain sight, for the entire game (even, and especially, if the player leaves the board).

The first time I organized an open tournament I provided carbonless duplicate score sheets and required that they be turned in. The idea was we might publish some of the interesting games in the state chess bulletin. Afterwards we tried playing thru several games and encounted recording errors to the point we couldn’t recreate several games. Others were flat out illegible (ORIGINAL handwriting can be hard enough to read, just try decipering the copy!). I gave up and haven’t tried it since.

Grant Neilley

No – that’s perfectly reasonable. Prudent, even.

And even if they had been legible and accurate, you might have run into situations in which players got close to their time controls and stopped recording their moves, so that the details of the endgame would have been lost.

Yes, I’m seriously proposing banning scorebooks. In all honesty, I don’t believe it is nonsense at all. Many TDs already forbid players engaged in tournament games from even entering an area where there might be chess books for sale…a very prudent thing to do. If a player has played a previous game in the same variation, has entered notes that might be of help in an active tournament game or wishes to refresh his memory of a previously played game against the same opponent and any of this information is to found in a scorebook, an unscrupulous individual might be tempted to scan for this information while no one is looking. By banning the use of scorebooks, this would be a very easy way to support the rules against this type of cheating.

Yes, it would be a good idea to rule that all scoresheets are to remain at the table in plain site. I believe, however, that this is just a bandaid approach. I think it would be even better to require that each player use a single gamescore sheet that is provided by the organizer or TD. Not only would it help keep the type of cheating that I’ve described from occurring, it would also support the observation that gamescores are the property of the organizer.

In this particular area, I think we need a more structured approach. We’ve allowed too many options which are open to abuse.