Can you post the line where the King gets mated on h8 please?
I confess I don’t know it. Good luck with your opening!
Anyone else would like to add?
this opening is good in blitz tournaments probably
You have asked people for inputs and I have read these posts with casual interest. My own interest in participating in the discussion is tempered, however, for two reasons: (a) you asked for “Grand Master” input at one point (so I am hurriedly working on pushing my rating over the top - seems those last 950 points are the hardest), and (b) you posted a bunch of games earlier in this thread, NONE of which uses the subject 1. …f5 opening! This is a head-scratcher… makes me just return to the Albin thread.
Seriously, not trying to bash your idea at all - just giving you some feedback on why the overall response level might have been deterred a bit by your posts.
I pasted both of the Fred Defense games you provided into ChessBase with Fritz 6 and ran a bit of computer-aided analysis in addition to my own slight analysis. (And found that ChessBase can easily handle having coordinate notation pasted into it and render perfectly acceptable algebraic notation.)
In both of the games you submitted, the win was solely on the account of White blundering away his/her Queen. Based on these games, the Fred Defense / Duras Gambit retains its’ value solely as shock value, not necessarily a sound opening.
PGN follows. If you want those games PMed to you without the analysis as clean PGN I can do that. Just PM me. (For that matter, I can convert the others, also, if you want and PM you the PGN. Again, just PM me.)
[Event “Yahoo! Chess”]
[Site “?”]
[Date “2009.09.16”]
[Round “?”]
[White “Anonymous”]
[Black “Jion_Wansu”]
[Result “*”]
[ECO “B00”]
[Annotator “LaughingVulcan,Fritz6”]
[PlyCount “75”]
- e4 f5 2. e5 ({Fritz 6:} 2. exf5 Nf6 3. d4 d5 4. Bd3 Nc6 5. Ne2 Ne4 6. Nbc3
Bxf5 {[%eval 100,14]}) 2… g6 {Fritz evaluated this at 1. … as +.44/14.} 3.
d4 ({Fritz 6:} 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 dxe5 5. Nxe5 Nd7 6. Bf4 Bg7 7. Bc4 Nxe5 {
[%eval 50,13]}) 3… Bg7 4. Nf3 e6 5. Bg5 Ne7 6. Bc4 c6 7. O-O b5 8. Bb3 a5 9.
c4 a4 10. Bc2 Ba6 11. cxb5 cxb5 12. Re1 Nbc6 13. Nc3 Qa5 14. a3 Nd5 15. Nxd5
exd5 16. e6 d6 17. e7 h6 18. Bd2 Qb6 19. Bb4 Nxd4 20. Nxd4 Bxd4 21. Rf1 {
This is the first move in which White isn’t nominally superior.} ({Fritz 6:} - Bxf5 Bxf2+ {[%eval 241,11]}) 21… Bxb2 22. Rb1 ({But even here, Fritz
says White regains at +.72 at minimum with} 22. Qxd5) 22… Bd4 23. Qe2 Rc8 24.
Rbc1 Bc5 25. Bxc5 dxc5 26. Rfe1 b4 27. axb4 {This is called protecting your
line at the expense of an obvious threat. OK, no, it’s just called leaving
your Queen en prise.} (27. Bxa4+ {Still, even here, this move is winning for
white. I didn’t need Fritz to see this was superior to axb4, but Fritz’
minimum evaluation is +7.47.}) 27… Bxe2 28. Rxe2 Qxb4 29. Rb1 Qd4 30. Ree1
Qd2 31. Bxa4+ Kf7 32. e8=Q+ Rhxe8 33. Bxe8+ Rxe8 34. Rxe8 Kxe8 35. Rf1 Qe2 36.
h4 d4 37. g3 d3 38. Kg2 *
[Event “Yahoo! Chess”]
[Site “?”]
[Date “2009.09.16”]
[Round “?”]
[White “Anonymous”]
[Black “Jion_Wansu”]
[Result “*”]
[ECO “B00”]
[Annotator “LaughingVulcan, Fritz6”]
[PlyCount “32”]
- e4 f5 2. exf5 g6 3. fxg6 Nf6 4. Bd3 d5 5. gxh7 {White has managed to
decimate the Kingside. Black hasn’t developed anything Queenside. So King
safety is???} e5 6. Nc3 (6. Bg6+ {and Black loses castling ability.}) 6… e4 - Nxe4 dxe4 8. Bxe4 Qd4 9. Bg6+ Kd8 {And black loses castling ability anyway,
but now with a slight edge to white instead of a +2 advantage per Fritz.} 10.
c3 Qb6 11. Qf3 Ng4 12. Qd3+ Bd7 13. Nh3 Bc5 14. O-O Nc6 15. Bf5 Nce5 16. Qxd7+
{IMVHO, a blunder does not a confirmation of opening’s soundness make.} ({
Also, it’s important to note that the White Queen wasn’t trapped. Fritz 6:} - Qd5 Qd6 17. Qg8+ Qf8 18. Qxf8+ Bxf8 19. Bxg4 Bxg4 20. Ng5 Kd7 {[%eval 188,
11]}) 16… Nxd7 *
Love it!
On November 24th I will use this opening again. I am also on World Chess Live under the screen name JuergenWerner. Whoever wants to play against the f5 let me know.
Minor correction: Loren Schmidt was a graduate student at Purdue University. I met him there around 1982. He was active in the chess club. If I recall correctly, he already had one PhD in mathematics and was working on two more - in English and Philosophy. I seem to recall him talking about meeting Christopher Stasheff (a fantasy author) while in Grad School at Wisconsin, so that might have been where he got his first PhD. Needless to say, a very smart guy…
Am I beating a dead horse?
[size=200]YES![/size]
As other(s) pointed out before, the games that you have cited, repeatedly, have little to do with the 1. f4 opening - much more to do with erroneous play in the middle game. Please treat the subject more directly or stop ‘beating the dead horse’, as you said. (A silly phrase itself, but I guess better than beating a live one.)
Possibly to some degree. I’ve said about everything I wanted to say about it. It is a most unsound opening - almost the worst play Black can make, though Dennis Monokroussos suggested there was at least one worse. Its only value is that it has some shock value. And whether your opponent is shocked or not… depends on your opponent, not your play.
That you have won with it… granted. You can theoretically win any opening, including as Black 1. …f6 2. …g5 or as White 1. f3 2. g4 - all those take is failure of your opponent to see the imminent mate.
But take a solid look at your losses with it. You will almost certainly find no magic in them - no incredible calculation or lightning Rybka-inspired tactics. Just solid play on the part of White is sufficient to defeat it. Or a minimum experience of White with “What if my opponent ventured f5 in response to e4? Well, take the f5 pawn and refuse to take on g6 if offered - and simply play solid development for the rest of the opening.” That’s what I took away from this thread.
IMVHO, the horse is not only dead now but on its way to the glue factory, to me.
I believe you mean Indiana University, rather than University of Indiana.
Let’s see what we can do…
Any other analysis for this opening for black?
Why does it seem like strange opening protagonists thrive in Iowa/Nebraska?? 
Phred. Blackmar Diemer. And didn’t Richard Verber lose to someone strong from Iowa years ago (aaargh…names!) was it Mason? where he played 1 f3 2 g3 3 Kf2?
True-ish story:
In 1991, I was editing the Illinois Chess Bulletin, and my home phone number (still the same) was listed in every issue. I get a call:
“I have a submission for your magazine.”
“Who is this?”
“I don’t want to tell you my name. But I’ve discovered a new opening”
“OK…”
“1.e4 f5 2.exf5 Nh6!” (Exclam denotes excitement in his voice.) “And now if 3.Qh5+ Nf7!”
I paused. “But White doesn’t have to play 3.Qh5+ Why not simply 3.d4?”
Long pause…
CLICK
Upon refection, maybe 3.Qh5+ is the critical try 
As a longtime player of the KBP, I wish to add a few words of reason to this thread.
I have taught many students the Dutch defense for Black. Indeed, against 1.d4 or 1.c4 the move … f5 is, at minimum, plausible. Alas, I start out by giving the student a harsh word of caution. When you play … f5, you are handling dynamite. Consider the following sample game:
1.d4 f5 2.g4 fxg4 3.h3 Nf6 4.hxg4 Nxg4 5.Qd3 Nf6 6.Rxh7 Rxh7 7.Qg6#
There are, of course, ways for Black to avoid such a tragic fate. At least, that’s the case in the Queen’s Pawn opening. I play the Dutch with success at the Master level. Hikaru Nakamura has beaten (ex-) World Champions with it.
Unfortunately, … f5 is far worse against 1.e4. It isn’t just that Black pitches a valuable Pawn to the fire. The real problem is the weakness of the light squares. White doesn’t have to do anything special to get a comfortable advantage. But a motivated and creative player will find even more.
Go back to my example and take it to heart. Weakening the Black monarch so early is deadly serious. Don’t waste time trying to justify such a hopeless position. Instead, take that time to learn a more sensible defense to 1.e4.
Michael Aigner
The following variation is good for black:
- e4 f5
- exf5 g6
- fxg6 Nf6
- gxh7 Rxh7
White has other ways to play, but after 5.Nf3 why is the variation good for black? He doesn’t have much of a lead in development, he doesn’t have an edge in the center, and his king is less safe than white’s. In the meantime, for the benefit of ‘developing’ his rook on h7, he has sacrificed two pawns.
Far from being good for black, this is already winning for white.
Ah, yes, Larry “Flash” Mason – a low expert who could knock off a master every so often with his unorthodox play.
And what’s wrong with f3 and Kf2? Castling is bad anyway.
Bill Smythe