# Unrateds and Match Play **URL:** \ **Category:** Running Chess Tournaments\ **Created:** [January 24, 2014, 2:56am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/unrateds-and-match-play/18735 "2014-01-24T02:56:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ILfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71e660/32.png) [@ILfish](https://forum.uschess.org/u/ILfish)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 2:56am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/unrateds-and-match-play/18735/1 "2014-01-24T02:56:32Z")
There are limits set to how many rating points can be gained through match play. However, what if an unrated player played a 20 game match in order to get a rating. How would you treat such a “provisional” player if they then entered a tournament you were running? Of course this is just theoretical. It is easier for an unrated to find weekend and/or week night events to play at in order to work towards getting an established rating. I sincerely doubt there has ever been an unrated that played their first 6-20 games via match play. Still it is always possible that someone may view this as a quicker, and maybe cheaper, way to establish a rating for a new player. Larry S. Cohen ---
**Author:** ![relyea](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/relyea/32/190_2.png) [@relyea](https://forum.uschess.org/u/relyea)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 3:02am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/unrateds-and-match-play/18735/2 "2014-01-24T03:02:34Z")
Since unrateds and provisionally rated players are not allowed to play (rated) matches, I don’t think this would be much of an issue. Alex Relyea ---
**Author:** ![nolan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/nolan/32/174_2.png) [@nolan](https://forum.uschess.org/u/nolan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/unrateds-and-match-play/18735/3 "2014-01-24T14:39:17Z")
It might be quicker, but it would almost certainly be a less reliable rating, which is why unrated and provisionally rated players are prohibited from playing matches. And although this has been a USCF rule for a long time, it amazes me how many TDs don’t know about it. Perhaps TD/A should have a periodic ‘rules quiz’ question as part of the login prompt, and a TD doesn’t get in unless he selects the correct answer? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Allen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bbce88/32.png) [@Allen](https://forum.uschess.org/u/Allen)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/unrateds-and-match-play/18735/4 "2014-01-24T16:12:39Z")
They are not prohibited from playing in matches - we just won’t rate the games. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![wilecoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/2bfe46/32.png) [@wilecoyote](https://forum.uschess.org/u/wilecoyote)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/unrateds-and-match-play/18735/5 "2014-01-24T18:30:41Z")
> [@nolan](#): > > Perhaps TD/A should have a periodic ‘rules quiz’ question as part of the login prompt, and a TD doesn’t get in unless he selects the correct answer? 🙂 Like entering the Ravenclaw common room! 😆 ---
**Author:** ![nolan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/nolan/32/174_2.png) [@nolan](https://forum.uschess.org/u/nolan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/unrateds-and-match-play/18735/6 "2014-01-24T19:27:36Z")
I assumed most TDs would be members of Slytherin House. ---
**Author:** ![wilecoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/2bfe46/32.png) [@wilecoyote](https://forum.uschess.org/u/wilecoyote)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/unrateds-and-match-play/18735/7 "2014-01-24T20:37:33Z")
Based on the fact that pairing is a dark art? ---
**Author:** ![Micah\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@Micah\_Smith](https://forum.uschess.org/u/Micah_Smith)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 12:41am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/unrateds-and-match-play/18735/8 "2014-01-25T00:41:32Z")
> [@Allen](#): > > They are not prohibited from playing in matches - we just won’t rate the games. 😉 I have seen matches get rated that have included unrated and provisionally rated players plus events that have included unrated and provisionally rated players and have been forced to be coded as a match. Also, Mike Nolan made a proposal to not have provisionally rated players restricted by the match rules (50 point gain/loss limit, etc.). Any update on this? ---
**Author:** ![kevin\_bachler](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/kevin_bachler/32/667_2.png) [@kevin\_bachler](https://forum.uschess.org/u/kevin_bachler)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/unrateds-and-match-play/18735/9 "2014-01-27T15:40:39Z")
> [@Micah Smith](#): > > > [@Allen](#): > > > > They are not prohibited from playing in matches - we just won’t rate the games. 😉 > > I have seen matches get rated that have included unrated and provisionally rated players plus events that have included unrated and provisionally rated players and have been forced to be coded as a match. > > Also, Mike Nolan made a proposal to not have provisionally rated players restricted by the match rules (50 point gain/loss limit, etc.). Any update on this? To whom? ---
**Author:** ![mlanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@mlanger](https://forum.uschess.org/u/mlanger)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 3:17am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/unrateds-and-match-play/18735/10 "2014-01-28T03:17:47Z")
> [@kbachler](#): > > > [@Micah Smith](#): > > > > > [@Allen](#): > > > > > > They are not prohibited from playing in matches - we just won’t rate the games. 😉 > > > > I have seen matches get rated that have included unrated and provisionally rated players plus events that have included unrated and provisionally rated players and have been forced to be coded as a match. > > > > Also, Mike Nolan made a proposal to not have provisionally rated players restricted by the match rules (50 point gain/loss limit, etc.). Any update on this? > > To whom? To us. ---
**Author:** ![Micah\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@Micah\_Smith](https://forum.uschess.org/u/Micah_Smith)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 5:51am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/unrateds-and-match-play/18735/11 "2014-01-28T05:51:40Z")
What happens if an unrated player plays in an event that is coded as a match? A player is suppose to gain/lose no more than 50 points in a match so would an unrated player who has a 1300P0 age based rating only get an initial post event rating somewhere between 1250 to 1350? I know there was a programming issue in the past where an unrated player who had a 1300P0 rating got a 1300P2 post event rating despite going 0-2 against an 800 and a 900. ---
**Author:** ![kevin\_bachler](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/kevin_bachler/32/667_2.png) [@kevin\_bachler](https://forum.uschess.org/u/kevin_bachler)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/unrateds-and-match-play/18735/12 "2014-01-28T14:33:17Z")
> [@mlanger](#): > > > [@kbachler](#): > > > > > [@Micah Smith](#): > > > > > > > [@Allen](#): > > > > > > > > They are not prohibited from playing in matches - we just won’t rate the games. 😉 > > > > > > I have seen matches get rated that have included unrated and provisionally rated players plus events that have included unrated and provisionally rated players and have been forced to be coded as a match. > > > > > > Also, Mike Nolan made a proposal to not have provisionally rated players restricted by the match rules (50 point gain/loss limit, etc.). Any update on this? > > > > To whom? > > To us. Then its not reallya proposal in the sense that Micah is using it above, right? Proposals within the forum are suggestions, that may or may not be picked up more formally. Its a suggestion, that probably hasn’t been studied or perhaps even considered. I’m not criticizing, just pointing out that there are proposals and then there are proposals. Micah tends to act as though the forums are a direct line to the USCF office/committees/delegates/EB when its actually a discussion group, in the case of the Issues forum, a member only discussion group - so I just wanted to clarify that there should be no expectation of a suggestion here going anywhere unless someone has formally raised it to the attention of someone at/on the/a office/committee/EB. ---
**Author:** ![relyea](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/relyea/32/190_2.png) [@relyea](https://forum.uschess.org/u/relyea)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/unrateds-and-match-play/18735/13 "2014-01-28T17:33:30Z")
> [@Micah Smith](#): > > What happens if an unrated player plays in an event that is coded as a match? A player is suppose to gain/lose no more than 50 points in a match so would an unrated player who has a 1300P0 age based rating only get an initial post event rating somewhere between 1250 to 1350? I know there was a programming issue in the past where an unrated player who had a 1300P0 rating got a 1300P2 post event rating despite going 0-2 against an 800 and a 900. Why would it be a match if the unrated was playing two different people? Alex Relyea ---
**Author:** ![Micah\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@Micah\_Smith](https://forum.uschess.org/u/Micah_Smith)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/unrateds-and-match-play/18735/14 "2014-01-28T18:46:36Z")
> [@kbachler](#): > > > [@mlanger](#): > > > > > [@kbachler](#): > > > > > > > [@Micah Smith](#): > > > > > > > > Mike Nolan made a proposal to not have provisionally rated players restricted by the match rules (50 point gain/loss limit, etc.). Any update on this? > > > > > > To whom? > > > > To us. > > Then its not reallya proposal in the sense that Micah is using it above, right? Proposals within the forum are suggestions, that may or may not be picked up more formally. Its a suggestion, that probably hasn’t been studied or perhaps even considered. I’m not criticizing, just pointing out that there are proposals and then there are proposals. Micah tends to act as though the forums are a direct line to the USCF office/committees/delegates/EB when its actually a discussion group, in the case of the Issues forum, a member only discussion group - so I just wanted to clarify that there should be no expectation of a suggestion here going anywhere unless someone has formally raised it to the attention of someone at/on the/a office/committee/EB. Mike said he sent his proposal to the ED and RC chair. ---
**Author:** ![jwiewel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/jwiewel/32/104_2.png) [@jwiewel](https://forum.uschess.org/u/jwiewel)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/unrateds-and-match-play/18735/15 "2014-01-28T19:06:39Z")
> [@kbachler](#): > > > [@mlanger](#): > > > > > [@kbachler](#): > > > > > > > [@Micah Smith](#): > > > > > > > > …I have seen matches get rated that have included unrated and provisionally rated players plus events that have included unrated and provisionally rated players and have been forced to be coded as a match. > > > > > > > > Also, Mike Nolan made a proposal to not have provisionally rated players restricted by the match rules (50 point gain/loss limit, etc.). Any update on this? > > > > > > To whom? > > > > To us. > > Then its not reallya proposal in the sense that Micah is using it above, right? Proposals within the forum are suggestions, that may or may not be picked up more formally. Its a suggestion, that probably hasn’t been studied or perhaps even considered. I’m not criticizing, just pointing out that there are proposals and then there are proposals. Micah tends to act as though the forums are a direct line to the USCF office/committees/delegates/EB when its actually a discussion group, in the case of the Issues forum, a member only discussion group - so I just wanted to clarify that there should be no expectation of a suggestion here going anywhere unless someone has formally raised it to the attention of someone at/on the/a office/committee/EB. Last March 14 Mike Nolan said that he sent a question to the ratings committee the day before on whether or not a programming change should be made to handle when an unrated (or provisionally rated) player ends up in something like a tournament’s play-off match. At that time he noted that 42 events since 2004 would be affected (that averages to around 5 events per year). [viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18234&p=252624&hilit=+Unrated+Match#p252624](http://www.uschess.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18234&p=252624&hilit=+Unrated+Match#p252624) Considering the infrequency with which it would be used, I can understand if it did not hit anywhere near the top of the list in priorities. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex019/user_avatar/forum.uschess.org/system/32/2_2.png) [@system](https://forum.uschess.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2024, 8:40am UTC](https://forum.uschess.org/t/unrateds-and-match-play/18735/16 "2024-04-22T08:40:55Z")