Does anyone know when on-line registration for the US Open is going to be available? Last year it was up in early April.
We are dealing with an issue in Arizona related to AZ gambling laws that may force a change in some of the tournament structure. We hope it is resolved shortly.
Interesting. Since we had a US Open in Arizona not all that long ago, may I ask whether the issue is due to a change in their laws or our tournament structure?
Neither.
Someone who wants to run poker tournaments for profit whose efforts have fallen afoul of the AZ gambling laws protested that our event should be banned as well. We are working with counsel to explain to the AZ regulators why our event is different. The AZ statute is more restrictive than in most other states.
There may have to be some changes in the tournament structure or prize fund to satisfy AZ. And that is why the registration page is not up yet.
I don’t know if this helps but I once contacted the Nevada Gaming Commission when I lived in Las Vegas regarding a chess tournament I was planning and to make sure I met with their regulations. They told me that since chess is a game of skill, not luck/chance, then they did not consider it part of their purview.
No it really doesn’t help. The way their statute is written, and since the person making the complaint is wanting to run poker tournaments which he also claims is a game of skill, the fact that there is no element of chance at all in chess is not relevant. The AZ statute does not define gambling as a game of chance.
That said we believe this has been favorably resolved due to the non-profit status of the USCF, the fact that the governance meetings are held as part of the event, and that the event does not generally take in revenue above the direct costs to present the event. So this is not a money making activity for the USCF and it is a part of our non-profit purposes to hold our governance meeting.
There was a court case in NYC several years ago where the police and city tried to shut down chess playing in Washington Square Park claiming that because they played for money it was gambling. The court held a hearing and after expert testimony ruled that Chess is NOT a game of chance and therefore is not a form of gambling. Your local counsel should be able to find the decision from the NY court. IIRC it was brought in Manhattan District Court----possibly NY Co. Supreme Court.
Thought you meant the golf one ll.
Did anyone notice the the number identifier of the U.S. Open for both chess and golf air the same? Both are at 115, I believe
Golf is at 115 (started in 1895 and skipped 1917, 1918, 1942, 1943, 1944, 1945) while chess is at 116 (started in 1900 and didn’t skip any years).
It doesn’t matter. this is not NY and the AZ statute is worded very differently. The AZ statute does not base its definition of gambling on an event being a game of chance.
As stated in another chess forums/website, chess is not 100% skill, and games like poker are only about 10% skill
Interesting article. I like the guy who complained has… "Lee was convicted of three felonies for his role in operating poker rooms, (though his punishment was a mere one year of probation.) "
3 felonies?! Does he think he’s Teddy?
Chess is 100% skill - barring extreme weather or natural disasters, individual health, or other external forces. It is theoretically 100% skill, and games like poker are not.
Who you get paired against is due to an external force. I know many players who consider that to have an element of luck since it depends on who entered the event and how people within one point of the score group happened to do in their games.
Once the game actually starts it boils down to skill.
It is kind of similar to an indoors tennis match on a consistent surface. Once the tennis match starts the elements of “luck” are usually limited to whether or not a person was skillful enough to push the limit and make a shot that most would consider un-makeable. Once a chess game starts the elements of “luck” are usually limited to whether or not the opponent was skillful enough make errors or to take advantage of errors.
While I understand that we likely have a resolution for other reasons, perhaps we should point out to AZ regulators the following which is similar to, but a little than, the argument presented previously:
Within the game, chess is theoretically 100% skill and gambling games such as poker, blackjack, etc., are significantly based on random chance.
If the regulators have a difficulty with a chess tournament, then they should also have difficulty with Scrabble, spelling bee competitions, professional baseball, professional football, high school football, high school baseball, high school and any other sporting event based solely on skill which offers a prize (fund) for a superior performance.
There must be something in their rules/law that eliminates these other events from consideration of the gambling rules - and that same something should apply to us.
The playing surface, weather, etc. are external forces that are the same for both players and not part of the theoretical construct of the game. Pairings have zero to do with the theoretical construct of the game. That’s why I clarified with the sentence: “It is theoretically 100% skill, and games like poker are not.”
Poker has elements of skill but luck does play a role in poker and this is what makes it different from chess. Both players start of with pieces that have the same value unlike poker where inequality comes with the deal. A decent lawyer ought to be able to handle this one without much trouble.
Before you can really comment you have to read through the AZ law. The wording is a bit unique. I made a lot of the same arguments.
Sports events are specifically excluded from the AZ gaming laws. The AZ gaming laws don’t define gaming as a game of chance. In fact the poker guy tried to hold a Scrabble event and was turned down.
The AZ statute does not allow for the “house” to make a profit. There are exceptions for charitable gaming and for social games for nominal stakes - like say a local chess club’s local event. Games like McDonald’s Monopoly promotion are exempted because one can play for free.
The poker guy who complained has been trying to set up a for profit poker rooms for years and keeps getting in trouble with the AZ state gaming commission.
One thing that is different for the USCF is that the US Open is also part of our governance meeting and has not turned a profit (measured as direct income - direct costs) in a number of years. And it won’t generate a profit this year either.