Just found out the Sinquefield Cup is using 30-second delay rather than increment. Time control is 40/100, SD/60 d30 from move 1.
This is the first example of 30-second delay I have seen anywhere, but certainly at the elite level. Will be interesting to see what the top players think of it. I cannot watch the games live due to work. Does anyone know if they are using Bronstein mode or is it U.S.-style delay?
It’s possible to search MSA by time control, so if you type ‘d30’ in the time control field on the tournament search page, you can find all events since 2012 (when we started keeping standardized time control information) that were delay/30 events.
They’re not unheard of, but you’re probably correct that they haven’t been used very often in elite events.
They are using Bronstein mode.
The Mechanics Institute has used it in some events that drew multiple masters.
Thanks for the info. If I read this correctly, all Grand Chess Tour events at classical time control this year will use delay rather than increment.: grandchesstour.org/sites/default … ations.pdf
Interesting.
Interesting. FIDE was anti-delay for years (possibly because delay was popular in the USA?), I wonder what changed?
FIDE is not in charge of the Grand Chess Tour.
But are the games FIDE ratable?
Yep
Delay doesn’t make a game not ratable by FIDE. Total think time does.
More accurately, all Grand Chess Tour events this year will use delay rather than increment. That includes Rapid (G/25 d10) and Blitz (G/5 d3).
But we often see strong GMs play games using delay of 10 seconds or less. This is the first example of 30-second delay at top level that I know of.
If this becomes the new norm or custom, there will not be the need to buy increment capable clocks. What is presently on the market, and a lot of older digital clocks like the Saiteks, will do just fine.
The problem will be the 30 seconds, though. Imagine waiting for a DGT NA to blink “delay” for that long, or watch a Saitek blue scholastic clock show 30 seconds of delay tick down, with no way to tell how much main clock time is left.
Of course you could use Bronstein mode instead, but some clocks, such as the two listed above and the Excalibur Game Time II, do not support it. (And the Game Time II does not support more than 19 seconds of delay, anyway.)
I sure do miss my old Chronos.
The Game Time I can support 30 second delay. The Game Time II can only do delay up to 20 seconds. So the older, and often noisier, clock is more delay capable than its younger model. I checked the pre-sets for delay, but did not try to do a “User” setting.
The Saitek Pro and the older battleship gray model can be set using Bronstein mode for a 30 second delay. Only the colon flashes showing that the time is running. It is not clear until you use the clock that Bronstein mode is on. Once you are under 20 minutes, you can more easily see the seconds added. You can also do regular tournament mode with the ordinary delay we are familiar with. I do not have a blue Saitek, so I cannot tell how that clock might work.
On the DGT NA, the “delay” sign flashes under the main time until it goes off. Then the colon sign turns on showing that the main time is running. You can set any type of delay time that you want on this clock. Setting 20 is best for one time control with delay. Setting 23 works for multiple time controls and delay.
Does it make a difference?
At this type of event, I suspect the organizers will furnish clocks. Said organizer would then set them whichever way the furnished clock allows. If the furnished clock allows both ways, the organizer will choose one or the other and probably set them all the same way.
I would NOT like to see organizers specify “Bronstein mode” or “USA-style delay” in their pre-event publicity. Nor would I like to see anything that encourages players, upon their arrival at the tournament, to complain (either way) about the method chosen by the organizer. Come on, everybody. THEY ARE EQUIVALENT. Surely players can quickly adjust to either. Case closed.
Bill Smythe
It would be very difficult to specify Bronstein mode for tournaments at which players provide clocks, since many clocks do not support Bronstein. Plus the DGT 2010 and perhaps other clocks (older Saiteks) do not support US-style delay.
This is why the best clocks support increment, Bronstein and US-style delay and allow flexibility. It is no coincidence those clocks—Chronos, DGT 3000 and V-Tek—are the most expensive. (Along with the ZFM-Pro, but I do not know what forms of delay that clock supports.)
I wondered how this is being handled in the GCT for the tip-top-tier players. Seems Rex Sinquefield or one of his advisers prefers delay to increment. Now that I think of it, the Short-Kasparov exhibition match in St. Louis used delay, at the same time controls the GCT uses for Rapid and Blitz.
Anyone closer to the action know the background to this?
I disagree. Yes, of course they are equivalent, and it shouldn’t matter for up to about five seconds. There is, however, a tremendous difference in play if the players have no idea exactly how much time remains for up to 30 seconds per half-move. For example, say a player has 15 seconds left plus delay time remaining in sudden death. There is a big difference for the players if the clock counts down from 45 seconds every move or displays the word “Delay” for the first thirty.
Alex Relyea
The DGT NA is the only popular digital clock that can’t show the delay countdown in some form and it’s the players fault if they use that clock so I don’t see this as a big issue like you guys seem to do.
One time I was showing a Class A player how to set the longer Chronos model so it shows the delay countdown for a tournament with a 10 second delay but he said he didn’t care if it showed the delay countdown or not.
I’ve never found it that hard to remember how much base time is left on this clock when using delay. All you have to do is quickly glance at the clock before the delay countdown starts.
The blue Saitek doesn’t support increment at all
I am not arguing against 30-second delay. Quite the opposite. I like that top-tier GM events are trying out delay/Bronstein, just as I was happy that increment started to gain traction in US rated chess a few years ago.
Both maintain sanity in Sudden Death games, which is good. The difference between cumulative addback and non-cumulative addback/delay is interesting. It’s a shame that USCF flocked to delay, almost exclusively at first, while FIDE focused on increment. That might have had something to do with 5 seconds vs. 30 seconds, but it’s still a shame. Let’s try both.
But a 30-second delay should either be played under Bronstein mode or with the delay countdown visible ‘and’ the amount of main clock time also visible. I think Micah’s A-player friend might change his mind if he winds up in time pressure in a messy position in a money game.
I do not know much about the Omcor or ZMF clocks, but of the clocks I know, the ones which could handle 30-second delay correctly are the V-Tek, Chronos and DGT 3000. (Also the DGT 2010 if you want to use Bronstein mode.)
The Excalibur Game Time II does not support 30 seconds of delay, Saitek clocks show ‘only’ the delay countdown and not the main clock time till the delay is used up, and the DGT NA shows the word “delay” blinking till the delay time is exhausted.
I see lots of Game Times, Saiteks and DGT NAs when I play rated chess. Not a coincidence that those clocks cost less than the ones listed above.
So for events in which organizers provide most or all clocks, 30-second delay is worth a try. For events in which players provide their own clocks I would hesitate to go longer than 10 seconds of delay.
But I am glad top GMs are trying delay. Let’s see what they think.
Don’t forget that the Game Timer I does not support increment. As far as what FIDE will rate, you may be surprised. I still find it hard to believe that FIDE will rate the “Degrading Accelerated Swiss System” of pairings.
For those who don’t know that is an oddball accelerated system designed to make norms more likely in an event. The players are divided into 3 groups [A, B, C] and before any games are played are given artificial points for pairing purposes. Group A [usually the top 25% of the players] is given 2 artificial points, group B [usually the next 40% of the players] is given 1 artificial point, & group C [usually the remain 35%, & lowest rated players] is not given any artificial points. Players are paired based on total of artificial points and actual points scored through 6 rounds of a 9 round [or longer] event. As an added twist for Group B and Group C additional artificial points are added when the real score reaches 1.5 and 3.0 points. When each of those plateaus are reached an extra 0.5 is added to the total of artificial points for the player. The top group never has more points added to their artificial total. This means that a player from Group A who is playing well will at most likely play only 1 player not in Group A, and thus have a greater chance of playing opposition that is highly rated & titled. Such of course leads to greater opportunities for a norm.
Larry S. Cohen
You could also add the DGT XL to your list as it does Bronstein delay, although I don’t see that clock as much these days. The Omcor shows both the base time and the delay countdown at the same time. The Omcor also does Bronstein delay. The ZMF II, which only does “US delay”, has three different options for how to display the delay countdown (I think the ZMF Pro has the same options but I’m not positive). You can have it flash between the main time and the delay countdown, have it show only the delay countdown and not the base time, or have it show only the base time and not the delay countdown.