Am I being insulted?

[tanstaafl]

@Brenan

@tanstaafl

@Allen

I don’t hink so.

but the cell phone thing ought to be stopped by the TD.

If you’re playing in a tournament for a big prize, then maybe. BUT I think the cell phone issue is WAY overblown and that TDs should just leave people alone in casual events. If my opponent’s willing to put up with the distractions from making a cell phone call, I’m quite happy to concentrate on the game and try to take advantage of him.

Unless it’s a big money tournament, or the phone is being used IN the tournament hall, just ignore it! We don’t need to regulate every possible moment of a player’s time.

I disagree. Cell phones are a nuisance and in my opinion the game should be forfeited whenever one goes off. As it stands, the current sanctions are not strict enough If someone is too stupid or too rude to turn off his cell phone, he deserves the zero. And if it’s someone’s parent, then their small fry should pay the price.
No, we do not need to regulate every moment of a player’s time. But that isn’t the issue here. It’s not time that is at stake; it’s respecting the game and your opponent.
People with cell phones turned “on” do neither. Nor, for that matter, do players who leave the “beep on move” option on. If these clowns can’t figure out how to set their digital clocks, let them get an analog one. It’s annoying, it’s rude; and it again shows a total disregard for others.
What’s more, often this has to be brought to a TD’s attention…even when he is in the same room!

Did you bother to read the preceeding posts? Did you bother to look at mine after you quoted it?

I wasn’t talking about a cell phone RINGING. I was talking about a player taking a call during a game. UNLESS it’s a big money tournament, I say let him take the call. It’s his loss (time, concentration, and maybe the game).

Do we really want players to have to make the decision “Do I take the call from my wife, that might be an emergency, when I’ll have to forfeit the game?”

I say no. Chess is a recreational event not a matter of life and death – but the cell phone call COULD be.

As long as their phone is relatively silent (on vibrate) I could care less if they screen calls and even take a call.

If it’s a big money tournament, and they’re in contention for a prize, then maybe harsher rules are justified to prevent cheating. But most normal tournaments just aren’t in that category.

[Bob_McAdams]

@ColumbusMark

Should I feel insulted?!

I’d say that it depends on what the opponent does while they’re up. If they go over to the TD and ask whether they’ve been placed in the under-700 section by mistake, then, yeah, I’d feel insulted!

Bob

[Miller]

Anything that is within the rules of the game cannot really be disputed. A guy leaving the board to walk around, whether out of disrespect or taking you lightly or an effort to relieve jumpy legs, it’s all legal.

A sure sign of disrespect – and it is against the rules, I think – is when a guy annotates his scoresheet while the game is ongoing. I’ve made moves where my opponent marked “?” beside my move!

[vjg]

Wouldn’t annotating the scoresheet be illegal? Isn’t that a form of note taking?

[relyea]

@vjg

Wouldn’t annotating the scoresheet be illegal? Isn’t that a form of note taking?

Probably. If the opponent complained, I’d be inclined to ask the player to stop, but on the whole I can’t imagine that it’s that big a deal.

Alex Relyea

[texasrob]

I had a friend I played three days a week, with a couple of other friends, and who was around 2000 at the time for years. He liked to intimidate his opponents, and would often mark his score sheet “?!”,” ?”,or “??”. While he would win a majority of the time, this tactic often played on our minds. I would never check his sheet, but often the more senior guys would ask to use his score sheet to correct a move order, and it would be sad to see their faces. Since I was in training to be a local TD, I would collect the score sheets, and I would input them into my friend “Fritz”, and my Bookup for our club newsletter, that he let me help edit and compile. It took a while, but I eventually saw his pattern, and in a tournament we played into a line I had actually prepared for, and when he gave me the”?!”, I did “ !?”, which he spied, then a couple moves later I put “??”, made my move and “!!”. He sat there in a deep think for twenty minutes, saw what I did and resigned. I never said a word, and he never did this to me or to a friend again. Life can be dweet!

[Abba]

Hmm, I never thought that adding little notes next to moves can be considered cheating. I don’t think I’m in danger here though. I’ll write a capital D next to a move if a draw offer accompanies it. I’ll also write a capital L next to a move if it forces a long think from the other player.

I think that writing !'s and ?'s during the game is a bit pretentious.

[sloan]

@Abba

Hmm, I never thought that adding little notes next to moves can be considered cheating. I don’t think I’m in danger here though. I’ll write a capital D next to a move if a draw offer accompanies it. I’ll also write a capital L next to a move if it forces a long think from the other player.

I think that writing !'s and ?'s during the game is a bit pretentious.

Noting draw offers is required by the rules.

Noting time on the clocks is allowed by the rules.

Anything else is subject to challenge. The challenge may be silly - but it is probably technically correct.

[Ron_Suarez]

This reminds me of a tournament game situation I watched a number of years ago:

It was the last round of a Saturday tournament and the TD allowed people to start early. This one fellow from a nearby city was up and coming in his rating (I believe he was in the 1800’s at the time) and was paired against a veteran Expert who was near his rating floor of 2000.

The young fellow was White and had his plastic chess set and his board and clock ready for his older opponent. Since the round started early, the older person wasn’t late per the starting time so the clock wasn’t started or anything.

This older guy is persnickety at best. He will use the rules to pressure or put his opponent off balance.

So, he comes to the board and sees he is to play Black. Of course the equipment is not his and he insists that they use his equipment. So they have to change sets, board and clock while other games are going on all around them.

He then wants the clock placed on a different side, and because the TD wanted all clocks facing the aisle, they now have to turn the board around and switch sides of the table with their gear, all while other games are proceeding next to them.

Alright, the game started and you think this is the end of the story, but no. This young guy would carry a cluster of markers with him to write his scoresheet in different colors. Of course he would use a pen for the actual notation, usually.

As the game proceeded, he found himself playing against a line of the Accelerated Dragon that is quite slow and tedious. Now of course one’s opponent can see one making notation on their scoresheet. In this case though, the younger guy writes his move and then reaches into his bag to get the markers rubber banded together. He then proceeds to use different colors of markers to write “BORING” at the upper part of the scoresheet in and around the “Opening” line of the form.

I was watching this along with others and we were all laughing silently. This young guy had a smirk on his face that was just fun. Of course the persnickety Expert also saw it. He at first looked puzzled then his brow furrowed and he went back to the game. It obviously had an effect in that the game was drawn in another 15 moves or so.

Now, this Expert as well as this young guy is one of our group of chess players in the Central Illinois area. We all know each other and are friendly. The Expert was from my city, Peoria. Another strong player sitting at the board next to theirs even made a comment while all the to do was happening. It was obvious that the Expert was gaming the younger guy with the board, set and piece setup. The writing in big capital letters describing the opening as boring was priceless.

[Rochester]

@sloan

Noting draw offers is required by the rules.

Is this a new rule? I could not find it in the rulebook.

[Crume]

@Rochester

@sloan

Noting draw offers is required by the rules.

Is this a new rule? I could not find it in the rulebook.

It’s required by FIDE rules, but I’m not aware of any USCF requirement. 20C mentioned draw offers as approved notation.

[Fromper]

@sloan

@Abba

Hmm, I never thought that adding little notes next to moves can be considered cheating. I don’t think I’m in danger here though. I’ll write a capital D next to a move if a draw offer accompanies it. I’ll also write a capital L next to a move if it forces a long think from the other player.

I think that writing !'s and ?'s during the game is a bit pretentious.

Noting draw offers is required by the rules.

Noting time on the clocks is allowed by the rules.

Anything else is subject to challenge. The challenge may be silly - but it is probably technically correct.

I always put a little “d” next to moves to record a draw offer, but I can’t recall ever seeing anyone else write down draw offers. I had no idea it was required. I just started doing it after a debate once where my opponent tried to take back a draw offer. He had offered a draw on his move, so I told him to make his move and I’d think about it. After he made his move, I spent some time thinking before accepting the draw, and he claimed that his draw offer was no longer valid because it was no longer the same player’s move as when the offer was made. Apparently, he only offered the draw because he saw a winning move for me, but when he realized that I didn’t see it, he figured he could win if we kept playing and I played anything else. Needless to say, the TD sided with me, and we ended up with the draw, but I’ve been careful about the timing of draw offers ever since, including writing them on my score sheet.

I also usually write the time on every move, by both myself and my opponent.

As for other things, I started putting asterisks next to any move (or time notation) that I consider interesting and worth going back to review after the game. This includes noting extra long thinking time. I actually got this idea from watching an IM in a tournament once, so I assumed it was legal.

[Akzidenz]

@Fromper

As for other things, I started putting asterisks next to any move (or time notation) that I consider interesting and worth going back to review after the game. This includes noting extra long thinking time. I actually got this idea from watching an IM in a tournament once, so I assumed it was legal.

I do a similar thing by circling the move number whenever I feel even more uncertain than usual about the move I choose, just to remind myself to go back and look at it later.

This would seem to go along with the spirit of the law, if not the letter of the law. We’re not allowed to make notes in advance, or write down various lines for comparison for ourselves while choosing a move, but these are markers to remind us where to look later.

[wilecoyote]

@Fromper

I always put a little “d” next to moves to record a draw offer, but I can’t recall ever seeing anyone else write down draw offers. I had no idea it was required.

I think it’s been mentioned before, but recording draw offers is only required by FIDE rules. It is not required by USCF rules.

Just to be pedantic, the official notation for a draw offer is an equal sign (“=”) following the move.

[Smythe_Dakota]

Wouldn’t “=?” or “1/2 ?” be better? “=” looks like an Informant-style judgment about the position.

Bill Smythe