Modes like DL-C1 work great if the players always hit the clock once, and only once, for each move. When a player forgets to hit the clock once (or more) the time isn’t added until after it should be. When a player makes an illegal move and the opponent restarts the player’s clock (and asks the player to make a legal move) then time would be added before the time control is really reached.
Because players vary from hitting the clock once per move, adding the time only when zero is reached avoids those issues and works well (though, as Ken said, an explanation is often required).
Since the thread came back up again (and thanks, Gene, for the agreement!)…
I can think of one instance where I might disallow a Chronos Touch specifically: An double-amputee opponent who can manipulate the pieces with his/her prosthesis, does not want assistance (or none available,) and whose prostheses can’t trigger the touch-mechanism because of a rubber tip or whatever.
In that specific case, I’d be much more inclined to common-sense/disability rules allow a different clock. If a single amputee, I’d consider allowing move with prosthesis and touch with biological hand - while warning said player to not hover his/her hand on the clock.
But now I’m guessing I’m pretty much into Fantasyland, even though it could happen.
You know, it’s funny, but my analog clock requires time to go to zero before showing the addition, at least for one hour secondary time controls. One fault with USCF rules, IMO, is that in a time control of 40/90, SD/30, say, they require adding the half hour immediately after the 40th move is reached. This has the potential to cause a big problem during a time scramble. I think it would be better to adopt the FIDE rule in this case.
Some players prefer not to set their clocks to count moves. For a variety of reasons, as Jeff Wiewel points out, the count can become inaccurate.
If the clock is not counting moves, there really is no option other than to add time when the initial time period expires.
As for a third possibility, keeping the move count internally but not displaying it (assuming any clock even has this option), that would be horrible. If the count became inaccurate, noone would know, until too late.
Apparently relyea is referring to games using analog clocks. In such cases, it would certainly make sense (whether it’s an explicit rule or not) to advance each clock 30 minutes after move 40 is reached, so that the flag can mark the exact moment at which the next control expires.
It wouldn’t have to be done “immediately”, though. It could be done anytime after move 40, and before either player has used up too much (say, 10 minutes or so) of his second control.
Avoiding such difficulties is a good reason why a secondary control should always be 1 hour. Of course, now that analog clocks have virtually disappeared, it doesn’t matter so much anymore.
A simple “no” would have sufficed, without needing to guess what my understanding is. Perhaps a former LTD can just ask a TD related question to find out what your thinking is. I mean, maybe it’s not unusual elsewhere, even though we didn’t do it that way in Delaware.
If you want to get into details, it seems to me that you’re being unnecessarily picky about whether the rules literally require the TD to add a half-hour. Maybe this TD considers himself obligated to do it as good practice and common sense, even if it got left out of the rules.
I’m referring to rule 16W. Granted that it says “should” and does not say “immediately”, but are you suggesting (hopes) that I have misinterpreted this rule?
Yes, I think you’re misinterpreting that rule. That “should” applies only after any time scramble is over, since any interference by the TD prior to that would explicitly violate 16Y. I’m not sure what you mean by “adopt the FIDE rule.” If you mean the FIDE time forfeit procedure, that’s a fine idea but quite impractical for most tournaments. Is there some specific FIDE rule about resetting clocks for fractionl-hour time controls?
If I recall correctly, Guert Gjissen said in his column that according to the laws of chess, the time is to be added after a player’s initial time expires. For example, in a 40/90, SD/30 time control, each player would have the 30 minutes added after he 90 minutes have been used, regardless of how many moves have been made. If it is fewer than 40, it is an automatic forfeit, I guess.
On another topic, 16W seems to say that move counters are required to be used. Please tell me that’s not the case, and please use something to back it up. Thanks.
16W most certainly does NOT require move counters!!! In fact, move counters are deprecated in USCF rules. Players are required to count moves; clocks are, in general, not trusted to count moves correctly. Players may set the clock to count moves, but they should not depend on these counters for anything.
By extension, clocks which add time based on a clock’s move counter are also deprecated.
summarizing: with manual clocks, players should reset the clock for the next time control (if necessary!) as soon as it is convenient after both players agree that the time control has been reached. With digital clocks, it is better to add time when a player’s time expires - and NOT automatically, based on a move counter. Note that with an analog clock, if the next time control is an hour you do NOT reset the clock. Resetting is only necessary if the next time control is a fraction of an hour.
Now…some digital clocks are not capable of handling all USCF time controls properly - these must be manually reset, just like an analog clock. I have one DGT clock which will not do Bronstein AND multiple time controls - so, I manually add the time for the next time in exactly the same way I would reset a manual clock.
If players are resetting the clock, it’s best to do it before time expires. If an arbiter is resetting clocks (and there are enough to handle each game very quickly) then perhaps you can wait until one player’s time expires before resetting. If the clock is going to reset, then it is MUCH better to do it when time expires than when a player makes (or appears to make) a time control.
Note that, in general, when a player’s time expires it is LESS LIKELY to be at a time when every second counts. So - given my choice of equipment and settings, my #1 preference is a digital clock that automatically adds time (and notes that it has done so!) when a player’s time reaches zero.
Gijssen was presumably referring to tournaments played under FIDE rules. That means the arbiter calls the flag, and if the player has exceed the time control he loses. Frankly, this all seems like a pointless quibble. The FIDE rule says time should be added after one player’s time expires. The USCF rule says it should be added after both players complete the number of moves required. So what? If the players make 40 moves in half an hour, what difference does it make if you add the time then or wait iuntil one of them uses another hour?
Please clarify. I don’t see any reference to move counters in 16W. If you mean “when both players have completed the number of moves required,” that’s determined by the scoresheet (or if necessary the TD).
It would seem that, regardless of whether the players or the TD resets the clock, it is wise to do so only after both players appear to recognize that the first control has been met (i.e. at least 40 moves have been played by each player). The most sure-fire way to do this is to wait until one of the flags has fallen and neither player makes a claim. In fact, you might even want to wait a bit (say, 5 minutes after the flag fall), just in case one player might want to make a claim but may not yet have noticed the flag fall.
I agree that that’s prudent, and in most cases it will be the most natural. But it’s not mandatory, and there will be a few cases, like the one I gave above, when it might be more convenient to add the time earlier. Is this really a major problem? How many organizers deliberately make trouble for themselves with fractional-hour second time controls?
I agree, but doesn’t the provision to add the half hour to the clock when the 40th move is made make the setting on the clock to run out the 90 minutes before adding the half hour illegal? As I understand it, there are only two options on most clocks, either add the second time control when x moves have been made or add it when the first time control has expired. Since it is required (by 16W) to add the second time control when x moves have been made (granted that it should be determined by scoresheet, not the clock) is there any clock setting that allows this to be done?
Are there any digital clocks which need to be reset (i.e., which cannot be set at the start with a 30-minute second time control)? As for your specific question, sure. If the time controls are, say, 40/90, G/30, then after 40 moves you can reset the clock for G/(30 + whatever time remains). I suppose if you had three time controls there might be a problem, but does anyone do that anymore?