Chronos Touch Clock

Running Chess Tournaments
41

Yes, we’ve been talking about them all along – all the move-counting modes on the Chronos.

On the Garde digital-analog hybrid, even in move-counting mode, the time was added only when the first control ran out. I think this was an exception among move-counting modes on digital clocks.

I disagree that 16W absolutely requires that the second control be added exactly when x moves have been made. I think 16W was simply designed to illustrate the principle that the player is entitled to more time once he has made x moves. In practice, the time can be added at any time after that, as long as things haven’t become too hairy by that time.

I believe older models of the Saitek, among others, cannot be set for multiple time controls at all, at least when the delay (or Bronstein) is in use.

Bill Smythe

42

Not to mention the DGT clocks I mentioned many posts ago.

This, BTW, is a basic flaw in the design of the interface to many clocks. These clocks have many specific COMBINATIONS of features, in just about as many combinations as the maker of the clock thinks are reasonable - and then the damn users insist on WANTING a different combination. All the features are there - but there’s no way to get them in the combination the user wants.

The solution, of course, is a separate control for each feature. The Excalibur does (used to? I haven’t looked at one in awhile) it this way. So does the Chronos.

It’s OK to have a bunch of “standard combinations” - but you really, Really, REALLY need the ability to turn on/off every single feature.

On the DGT clocks I described earlier, you can have Bronstein and you can have multiple time controls - you just can’t have both of them at the same time. The solution I found most workable was to set the clock for a single time control (w/ Bronstein) and then manually add time when both players agreed that the proper number of moves had been made. The only minor downside of this is that you can’t tell (simply by looking at the clock) whether time has been added, or not.
Manual clocks tend to have the same problem - which is why best practice (note: NOT REQUIRED BY RULE) is to update the clock as soon as is reasonable after making time control.

43

Ah, perhaps I was unclear. The move counting modes add time when the clock has been pushed x times, not when x moves have been made. See above for the difference.

Alex Relyea

44

. .

Solution?
Electronic clocks could stop displaying the amount of time REMAINING, and stop ADDING increments of time. Instead,…

Electronic clocks could show how much time the player has CONSUMED, and start SUBTRACTING (to maintain the same concept as today’s increment implies).
Thus the clock would not show the time physically consumed, only the time logically consumed.

Harmless Caveat: No player’s time consumed can ever go below 0. This simplifies the display needs of the clock.

PURPOSE OF THIS SHIFT IN TIME TICK DIRECTION: ROBUSTNESS
This way the clock would never have to know when it should automatically add time. The fragile/sometimes-inaccurate move counter becomes decoupled with any operational aspect of the clock.

The players know the first time control is 40mov/90min. When the opponent’s clock rises to 90 minutes, I look at my scoresheet and decide whether to claim victory on time.

This would require that the increment used in one portion of the time control be used in all portions of that time control. That way the clock indeed never needs to know when to “automatically” switch to the next portion of the time control. Simplicity, robustness.
. .

45

Should the time read from left to right, or right to left?

46

Ugh, I wouldn’t want to have to waste precious seconds trying to remember both the move number for time control (30 or 40), plus whether time expires at 60 minutes, 90 minutes, 115 minutes or 120 minutes. It gets even more confusing in tournaments with multiple schedules. A countdown clock, however, always expires at the same instant: 0:00. Uniformity is best.

Michael Aigner

47

Reminds me of something I was once told:
“By FAA Regulation, a plane’s fuel gauge is only required to be accurate at two instances. When the gauge reads 0 and when the fuel tank is empty.”

  • Enrique
48

. .

Fair point.
Mistakenly I had it in my head that my proposal was essentially the same system that wind-up analog clocks used for decades: but I overlooked that analog clocks always end a time control at 12 o’clock — which is actually a strength and a weakness of wind-up.
A weakness because the secondary time control is limited to units of one hour.

To rescue my idea, the electronic digital clock would have to have a little extra nonintrusive space to list the time at which each time control expires, such as the following example:

01:30
02:15
04:00
04:45

…for…
(Primary) A Primary control of 90 minutes
(Secondary repeating) A repeating Secondary control of 45 minutes.
. .

49

Perhaps you are not aware, but the Chronos already has such a mode. It’s called Count Up (DL-UP).

If you start it at 0:00:00, then it counts forward – 0:00:01, 0:00:02, etc. It doesn’t have to “know” what the time control is. If it’s 2 hours, it becomes the player’s job to call the “flag” at 2:00:00, just as with an analog clock, and meanwhile, the clock will just keep on counting – 2:00:01, 2:00:02, etc (again, just as with an analog clock).

Or, you could start it at a time other than 0:00:00. If, for example, the control is 40/120 then SD/60, you could start it at 4:00:00, and play the 40th move by 6:00:00 and the rest of the moves by 7:00:00, just as with an analog clock.

Or, with a control of 40/90 then SD/30, you could start it at 4:30:00, play the 40th move by 6:00:00, and finish the game by 6:30:00. No need to reset for a 30-minute control, as it’s just as easy (on a digital clock) to tell when the time has expired at 6:30:00 as it is at 7:00:00.

You can also use a 5-second (or other) delay with this mode (DL-UP).

Unfortunately, this mode does not include an increment option (cumulative addback, or perhaps I should say subtractback). But there’s no reason it couldn’t, in future models.

If you start the clock at 4:00:00 (or whatever) instead of 0:00:00, even this caveat is unnecessary. If the player uses only, say, 10 seconds on his first move, then with a 30-second increment the clock would simply revert to 3:59:40 when he presses the clock.

Edited 12-17-2009 to correct mode to DL-UP. (Also, it’s different on some models – see Laughing Vulcan’s post below.)

Bill Smythe

50

Gene_M wrote:

I must disagree. Rule 16Ba states: “Analog: Clocks should be set so that each unit will register six o’clock when the first time-control expires.”

Second and additional controls are not “limited to units of one hour” although human intervention is required when the control is not an hour.

51

On my Chronos those modes are UP-1 and UP-2. My clock is about 11-12 years old (something like that…) I suppose the mode designations were changed at some point?

52

Mine is about 15 years old, and it’s DL-UP. (I have corrected my earlier post where I erroneously said DL-CU.)

Does anybody know whether more recent versions of Chronos allow a combination of increment (cumulative) and count-up?

Bill Smythe

53

Decades ago, it was customary to set the clocks to expire at 12:00. (Most of you are too young to remember.) Then somebody figured out that the minute and hour hands were close together at 12:00, potentially causing confusion, so it was changed to 6:00 to keep the two hands as far apart as possible.

The first rulebook to explicitly mention this change appears to be the 3rd (Redman, 1987) edition.

Bill Smythe

54

It’s in the 1st edition (Morrison, 1974), page 33, USCF Tournament Rule Art. 14.3 (1):
“Clocks should be set so that each unit will register six o’clock when the first time-control expires;”

55

On page 33 of the 1974 rule book (First Edition) Art. 14.3 states in part: “Clocks should be set so that each unit will register six o’clock when the first time-control expires”. The same rule also appears on page 28 of the 1977 (Second Edition, effective 1978) rule book.

I have no recollection of the rule being anything other than “six o-clock”. How many years ago are you talking about?

56

There may not be a conflict here. “Common practice” is not always the same as “what the Rulebook says”.

57

When I joined USCF in 1968, clocks were set to expire at 12:00. The change to 6:00 came, as I recall, within a year or two after that.

Thanks to those who found 6:00 in the Morrison editions. I had searched for it there, but somehow overlooked it. (I’m too lazy to look in Harkness right now.)

It’s possible that 12:00 was never explicitly mentioned in any rulebook, but was simply a custom.

Bill Smythe

58

I returned to tournament play after a long absence and one of my first encounters with digital clocks was the Chronos Touch Clock. More than once in the game I “touched” it only to find out some time later that it didn’t get touched all the way, and my clock was still running. This doesn’t happen with “normal” clocks, digital or otherwise, that have buttons that depress. While I would not try to argue that It’s not legal equipment, I do call it a serious design flaw. When I use this clock (and I won’t if I don’t have to), I will have to stare at the clock after each time I push it, just to make sure.

What a pain, and for what? Cuteness?

59

I recently just purchased a Chronos Touch.

I also own the standard, button model Chronos.

I like the Touch for the slower time control games. I turn off the beep on the move so it is completely silent.

I got the Black color of Chronos and the red LED has a great contrast against the Black. It is very easy to see if I correctly touched the button and activated my opponent’s clock.

60

I wouldn’t use a touch-sensitive clock without the “mip” noise turned on to confirm a press.