Is there any formal requirements on a game for it not go past 175 move pairs? At what point, If any, can a TD declare a draw for a tournament game when it reaches a maximum number of move pairs? If there is no limit, it could hold up the tournament.
Ken,
Have you considered searching the rulebook for relevant information? In particular, searching the phrase “draw for lack of progress” would lead you to Rule 14K, “Director declares draw for lack of progress”, which has the exact information on the point where a TD can declare a draw based on a lack of progress in the game.
There is a publicly available searchable pdf of the relevant rules here:
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14K doesn’t cover that 175 move pairs situation when a pawn is moved or a piece is captured. I heard once that 175 moves was the number to draw at, but the rule book doesn’t even give a specific number. We cannot make up our own rules about a specific number of move pairs.
The rule book doesn’t give a specific number because there is no such rule. You can look at the rule book for every instance of where the director can declare a game drawn (such as 14J, 14K, and 16T, with 14K being most relevant to your situation). The theoretical limit for longest legal chess game is something just under 6000 moves. This is one reason to not have a time control with increment.
When can we say the Rules Committee would back us up as TDs if we call the game at a certain number of move pairs for a tournament game?
I don’t think the Rules Committee would ever back you up if you called the game at a certain number of move pairs before the requirements of Section 14J, 14K, 16T or similar rules were met in that particular game.
I thought you were asking about declaring a draw based on lack of progress, which isn’t something you can determine just by counting the number of move pairs.
I think the longest game I’ve ever observed as the TD went about 128 moves before one player finally agreed it was a draw. (The other player had initially offered a draw somewhere around move 65 as I recall.) But as it was a game in the state championship between the reigning state champion (a master) and an expert, I did not feel that as a 1500 player I had sufficient chess expertise to declare it a draw based on lack of progress.
I HAVE done that with younger players, notably a player who had a R+K vs K and clearly didn’t know the process. (It took me about 2 minutes to show it to him afterwards.)
I have seen events advertised as “games will be adjudicated at move 120”, but not lately.
So, if we can’t call the game at 175 move pairs a draw, what do we do when we need to pair the next round so that one whole section is not held up and the game has no result to post for the tournament?
To quote Underdog: Nobody said it was going to be easy, Fred.
The old-school way was to adjourn the game and use your assessment of the position to decide how to record it temporarily for pairing purposes.
Or you could follow the Kashdan process. Ask each player (separately and away from the board) whether they’re playing for a win or a draw. If both players say they’re playing for a draw, declare it a draw.
We can adjourn, but how can we proceed in the tournament section without a result? I don’t think the tournament software will let us create the 3 files for submittal without having a result entered. By the time I posted this you had added more information about what I was trying to ask.
Try reading the rulebook section on adjournments.
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Yes, we have to use an envelope to keep the next move ready for post adjournment and other things. Adjournment procedures are not too hard.
Ulmont. . .Do SwissSys and WinTD allow double declaration of a game result where you give one player a win and the opponent a draw?
WinTD allows this using the term “split results” and the function “Games>Split Results”.
SwissSys allows a “loss + draw” result but I don’t see an option for a “win + draw” one. I know SwissSys less well, though, so it’s possible I’ve missed that option if it exists.
I’m pretty sure we’ve see asymmetric results of W-W and W-D from SwissSys-prepared events, but it’s possible that was done after uploading the event rather than within SwissSys.
There’s an interesting question about using asymmetric results for pairing purposes and how that would affect pairing versus the TD’s calling the game a draw or a win for one side for pairing purposes. Probably deserves its own topic.
When delay first came out there was a 175-move draw rule. That was later modified. The TD can declare a draw with 75 move-pairs with no capture or pawn move. Also the TD can call a five-fold repetition of position. Those situations do not require any player request. See 14K. The 75 move-pairs or five-fold repetition generally come way before 175 moves. If the players do pass 175 moves without triggering the other two situations then there is a good chance the game actually should be allowed to continue.