Two young players didn’t post the result of their game at our club’s tournament last night.
As a result, our club hasn’t filed the tournament to the USCF. There is no money at stake, but the result could determine whether there is a tie for first place in one section.
What do veteran TDs suggest doing?
We have posted on the club’s Facebook page that we want parents of young players to contact us because we are missing a result (we are not saying the players’ names, but there were not many young players last night).
I contacted a player sitting nearby but he didn’t know the result. This incident is accelerating our effort to get contact information for all players at the club.
I have heard TDs at weekend tournaments say (threaten?) they will guess the result if it isn’t reported. However, in the case of weekend tournaments, the players would likely tell the TD the correct result before the weekend is over, allowing the tournament results and ratings to be determined.
My understanding is that incorrect results posted to the USCF have to be changed by contacting the staff–there is no automated way to update results online.
We would rather wait to determine the correct result. Alas, our club won’t meet again until Sept. 14.
Thoughts?
Apologies if this topic has been discussed before. However, I was unable to find any posts with guidance.
Addendum: We heard from a parent and can post the correct result. But I am still curious what TDs suggest in cases where we can’t reach somebody.
I suggest double forfeit, by analogy to Rule 29H3:
In a Swiss tournament, if it is time to pair the next round and a result is still unreported, the director has several options and should choose the one that offers the greatest equity:
…
29H3. Double forfeit of unreported game.
Both players may be scored and paired as losses. The real result, when learned, may be recorded as an extra rated game (28M4).
One of my standard announcements includes some permutation of the following: “If I am ready to pair the next round and I am missing a result, the game will be marked as a double forfeit, and both players will be withdrawn by the pairing program. If you tell me the result after I’ve paired the next round, I’ll record the actual result and put both players back in for future rounds, but you will miss that next round.”
The announcement is intended as a deterrent, but I am prepared to enforce the advertised consequences. The most common outcome is that one or both players report the missing result either just before I pair, or after they discover they are not paired for, the next round.
If this occurs in the last round of a tournament, or (as it appears may be the case here) a multi-week club event where you report results after each round/day…I’d submit the results as a double forfeit. Once the players contact you with the proper result, you can follow the instructions at this link to report the correction for re-rate purposes. (It is true that rating report corrections must be manually processed. This is by design.)
The section about reporting it as a double-forfeit and the correction as an extra game is probably out of date, what the office would probably do under MUIR is just do an event correction once the result is properly reported to the TD and sent on to the office.
The point of putting it as an extra game was to keep it out of the actual tournament results, I assumed, but yes just getting an event correction would be a bit cleaner.
I am bringing this up again in a more elaborate way. . . For a tournament one tournament player came in somewhat late, a 2nd tournament player had a first round bye. I thought they could play a late started extra rated game during every else’s first round.
Every one in the first round finished their games, and it was time for round 2 to be paired and played. This time Round 2 included the late player and the byed player. So, I had the extra rated game players stop their game and play their Round 2 pairings.
After the 4th Round the tournament was over. I did not try to force the Extra Rated players to finish their game. When 2 players do not finish an extra rated game because they both don’t want to finish it, may the game just be canceled as if there was no extra rated game to start with?
After all, the extra rated game was my idea. Besides, if I remember accurately, the position left of the extra rated game wasn’t recorded until after the 2nd tournament round had started. It is possible that an unrelated player could have fiddled with the position before it was recorded because the extra rated game was left unattended for a short bit of time after Round 1 had finished and Round 2 was started.
Doesn’t a double forfeit of the extra rated game result in the game not being counted for rating anyway? Mike may have typed something to that effect the last time I brought this up.
When 2 players do not finish an extra rated game because they both don’t want to finish it, may the game just be canceled as if there was no extra rated game to start with?
Canceling the game is likely the best option, if you find yourself in this position. However, as a general principle, any rated game that starts should be played to completion, absent extentuating circumstances.
If the extra rated game was started after the current round was underway, the time control for the extra rated game should be adjusted to ensure its completion no later than approximately the same time as the games of the current round. The adjusted time control should be agreed to by both participants before the extra rated game starts.
For a game to be rated, each player must play at least one move.
Out of curiosity, was it an ASAP schedule where you really did deduct the appropriate time from the extra game but the other games still finished early? I could see that happening in a K-3 section playing at G/40;d5 with a 10 AM start time where two players are paired and start at 10:20 with G/30;d5 and they are the only ones still going at 10:50 while you want to start the next round at 11 AM instead of 11:30 AM.
If a rated extra game risks running too long then don’t even try to do it.
Yes, non-played games (forfeits and double-forfeits) are not rated, which is why the best way to handle that would be a correction once the results are available. We don’t compute or show tie-breaks on MUIR but using a double-forfeit for tie-breaking purposes could change the tie-breaks for other players.
Jeff, if the tournament games are G/30, d/5, then can an extra rated game be a game with G/15, d/3 because the tournament games are half way through their time? In that case is the Extra Rated game called a G/30, d/5 game for rating purposes even though the time control is set at G/15, d/3?
Make it an extra game that is quick rated because one player came on time expecting to play a dual rated game and shouldn’t have to play a quicker game that affects the regular rating. If both players arrived late then you might do G/30;d5 with the base time getting a 15 minute per player clock adjustment for being late (dual rated) and counting in the tournament round (as opposed to assigning 1/2 or zero point byes), or do a quick-only extra game at G/15;d3.
Mike. . .if I was to set an extra rated game at G/15, d/3 when the tournament games are being played at G/30, d/5 because the 2 players started the extra rated game when the tournament games were halfway through their time, then at what time control is the extra game rated in MUIR? Quick only or Dual rated?
Games that are faster than G/30 (MM+SS) CANNOT be included in the same section with games that are G/30 or slower, because the faster time control affects the performance. (More upsets wins.) It has enough of a statistical impact that it would impact the reliability of regular ratings.
What would happen if the first 3 game were dual rated and the extra game section was at G/15;d3 (or similar) is that the player would get a published quick rating but not a published regular rating.