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I have the 5th edition paperback of the USCF rules (of 2003).
It says that the players’ responsibilities to continue the notation of moves drops from ALL MOVES to NO MOVES when…
“either player has less then 5 minutes remaining” (15B, 15C).
** Does this phrasing refer to the player’s time at the start or the end of his turn?
I think it refers to the end, but I am unsure.
Thanks.
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Neither. It refers to the player’s time remaining, period.
15F covers what should happen in a 15B situation once the time control has been passed. That would be a guiding principle to handle increment taking a player back over five minutes. Note that you did not include that 15B and 15C are inapplicable if there is an increment of 30 seconds or more (keeping score is still required regardless of the time remaining).
Moves are written down only after they are played. Thus the time is at the end of the turn, since before the turn makes no sense (there is no move to write.) If one has more than 5 minutes after pressing one’s clock, one must write down the move.
continuing on the subject, it is correct that with 30 second delay, still have to write the move down? if so, what is the penalty if one doesn’t?
thanks, …scot…
Under USCF rules, it’s at the discretion of the Director. Here’s my discretion:
On the first offense, I would instruct the player–on his time–to comply.
On the second through (n-1)th offense(s), I would add two minutes to the opponent’s clock and instruct the player–on his time–to comply.
On the nth offense, where n >= 3, the offender would be forfeited.
It’s competitive chess. You keep score. Unless you’re claiming a draw on the 50 move rule or threefold repetition, you write the move only after it is played. You keep your score sheet in plain view. You record nothing but moves, draw offers, and (optionally) clock times.
Period.
Don’t you also have to write your opponent’s move - which occurs just before your turn?
Doesn’t the same logic apply?
Yes, but you will be forgiven if you postpone writing your opponent’s move until after you have also played your own next move. At that point, write both your opponent’s and your own (unless you are now under 5 minutes and the increment or delay is less than 30 seconds).
Bill Smythe
That’s true with an increment of 30 seconds or more. Whether it is also true with a delay of 30 seconds or more was the subject of discussion a while back in another thread.
I think the consensus was that the rule was intended to apply to both increment and delay, but that due to sloppy writing it might conceivably be interpreted to apply to increment only.
Bill Smythe
You have to write the moves down move by move. Move may apply to a single move, or it may apply to a move-pair (white/black or black/white). I consider writing down a move-pair at a time to be writing down move by move. That interpretation is also valid for FIDE, at least according to a highly respected IA that I asked.
Article 8.1.c of the Laws of Chess is quite explicit:
I would add another intermediate step. To reduce the remaining time of the player by two minutes.
Alex Relyea
Except for the commonly used variation that on a paper scoresheet you may write your move down before actually playing it.
Fixed the modifier of “variation” for you.
I certainly wouldn’t be opposed to removing this variation and I agree with you. But, it is still commonly used. It’s amazing how often I see it done even with electronic notation. At least with that one I’ll immediately warn the offender.
In the vast majority of US events, I am struggling to understand why it matters how much time is left either at the beginning or end of a player’s move. The release from obligation to properly notate occurs at the moment one player’s clock drops below five minutes.
The only type of time control where this could be an issue, IMO, is a time control with an increment between 1 and 29 seconds. In that case, the time at the end of the move is controlling. However, I imagine there are not many events in the US with time controls that feature such increments.
Even if the increment brought the time back up (i.e. at the end of the last move it was 4:59 and now it’s 5:10, for example) i still don’t see why this is an issue, ever.
The rule can still be applied move by move after each move. The rule states (in both 15B and 15C) that if either player has under 5 minutes left, neither player MUST keep score.
So, if increment causes that player to increase his/her time above 5 minutes, at that point, both players must keep score. I don’t see anything in the rule that permanently eliminates the obligation to keep score - it simply removes the obligation if less than 5 minutes occur.
Suppose a player had 4 minutes left, and had not been keeping score when an infraction occurred, and that player had 2 minutes added to his clock. Would he now not be obligated to keep score?
Another question (or bag of questions): In an event with a 5-second increment, what if a player under 5 minutes ceases keeping score, and plays a dozen moves without writing them down, all the while remaining under 5 minutes, and then, via a sequence of fast moves, manages to accumulate a bunch of time and go over 5 minutes? Is he then obligated to resume keeping score? And if so, is he obligated to update his scoresheet with the dozen missing moves, or is he permitted just to leave a large gap in the scoresheet? And, if the former, is he allowed to request his opponent’s scoresheet, and if so, is the opponent required to honor the request, and if so, is this true even if the opponent is also under 5 minutes?
It seems there a lot of gaps in the rules, that manifest themselves with increments under 30 seconds.
Bill Smythe
I think it’s arguably like passing into a new time control.