Full Point Byes going to same player

Running Chess Tournaments
1

Hello,

I am a relatively new TD and have been running a weekly Swiss Tournament for 3 rounds with between 20 to 25 players each week. Around half of those players are here nearly every week including a rather low rated player who has been the lowest rated player at the event most weeks. As he is the lowest rated player, he tends to get a full point bye when I have an odd number and don’t have a house player available, either the first round or a subsequent round when he is in the lowest score group and the lowest rated. He has been expressing a rather understandable degree of frustration that he keeps not getting to play all three games. I have looked through the rulebook and I think because each of these weekly events is independent of the others, there is no way to avoid him having byes when this happens. For example he suggested I avoid giving a player a full point bye two weeks in a row, but since these are independent events I don’t believe that’s legal. I know playing house myself is technically an option but I don’t feel at all comfortable being a TD and playing at the same time. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

2

It sort of depends on how many players show up on a regular basis, but I wouldn’t hesitate to tell that player he’ll be exempt from a bye some of the time, possibly every 2nd or 3rd event, as I consider that well within my authority as an organizer if not necessarily as a TD.

But if several players routinely get byes as well, they might request similar treatment.

3

Thanks, I wasn’t sure if that was an allowable option. I’ll talk it over with the other staff and maybe implement a you can’t be given a full point bye 3 events in a row type of thing. I appreciate the idea.

4

You’re technically allowed to play backgammon rather than chess as long as you include it in pre-tournament publicity. It would be fine to, whatever club page you have, say “we have a variant for byes where…”.

1B1. Notification.
Any variations from these published rules, including variations discussed in this rulebook, should be posted and/or announced at the tournament prior to their use, preferably before the first round.

1B2. Major variations.
A variation sufficiently major so that it might reasonably be expected to deter some players from entering should be mentioned in any Chess Life announcement and all other detailed pre tournament publicity and posted and/or announced at the tournament.

My club specifically posts this variant related to your issue:

28L2. Determination. To avoid repeatedly assigning a bye, particularly a first-round bye, to the same club players, in the first round it is club practice to give the bye to a player chosen randomly from the bottom half of the players by USCF rating, including to an unrated player, or to a player known to be arriving late. In subsequent rounds, it is club practice to give the bye to a player chosen randomly from the lowest score group. In each case players in attendance at the club for the first time, or who have provided equipment in use in the final round of the tournament, may be exempt from receiving a bye at the club director’s discretion (see also 28L5).

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5

Thanks that’s very helpful info. So once we figure out exactly the policy, I’ll post it at the tournament and include a note like that in our TLA. It’s good to hear how you fixed the issue.

6

You might see if you have someone who’d be willing to be the designated house player with a free entry. I had an assistant TD who filled in as needed to even out a section.

I’ve also done cross-section pairings when there was an odd number in two sections with the same schedule and time control, providing the matchups were reasonable. I treated each player as having a bye in their section and the game between them went in an extra games section.

As someone who was often one of the lowest rated players in an event, I felt I got more than my share of byes. One organizer had a standing policy that a player who got a full-point bye because of the odd-player rule got a refund of the prorated entry fee for that game.

7

If you have a low-rated player that generally loses quickly then one more option is a cross-round pairing. Give the round one bye to a player other than that player, and then, after the quick loss, re-pair that round one bye against the fast loser that will be playing a round two game.

Example: three round event having five players (A B, C, D, E in descending rating) with D being a player that plays quickly, often losing.

Round one A-C, D-B, E-bye is later changed to Round one A-C, D-B, E(round 1)-D(round 2) and assume the higher rated player wins each game.

Round two B-A, C-E, already played E(round 1)-D(round 2)

Round three give the tentative bye to C and then pair C (round 3) against the quick playing D (playing an extra round, or playing as a second iteration of player D).

This requires a player that plays quickly AND all players being there for every round. It was a common practice in our Chicago suburban scholastic tournaments until a few instances with players entering late or leaving early that resulted in round one having an odd number of players and round two and later having an even number of players. In that case a cross-round game in round one to avoid a bye that round resulted in having to continue to use cross-round games in every round (a Rd1-Rd2 game, a Rd2-Rd3 game, a Rd3-Rd4 game, a Rd4-Rd5 game, a Rd5-extra game) instead of just giving a round one bye and having all of the other rounds with no byes.

If A is your fast player in your three round events then if A generally wins you might even consider

Round one A-D, E-B, C-bye becoming A-D, E-B, C(Rd1)-A(Rd2) and Round two B-C, E-D with round three A-B and alternating the round three bye between D and E from event to event.

This is a very different bye allocation than normal so you would need to let the players know about it in the advance publicity.

Finally, if you do not have players that usually have quick games then the cross-round pairing option can often severely damage your ability to have rounds start on time. And even having a player with usually quick games you will eventually have a tournament where either the rd1-rd2 game gets a late start or the rd1-rd2 game runs long. If the normally quick player has a long-running round three then you might not be able to get your desired Rd3-extra game in, resulting in a round three bye.

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8

Can a house player play a cross section game because of having a bye in the Open section and needing to fill in for a game in the Under 1800 or Under 1600 section? It might work out such that I would happen to be free from one section so that I could play in the other section. In fact, I might could only serve as a house player for 1 section unless I served in 2 sections doing it on a round by round basis. What do you think?

9

If a house player player in top section winds up being an odd player in a round and they play a odd player in a lower section then in most cases it should be an extra game and not part of the lower section with the player receiving the full point bye. – so if I read your scenario right the option for a cross section pair is to replicate the lower section bye player up to the top section for that round with a 0 score - it might help pairings in the upper section as the house player may not have been in the lowest score group.

I did see a case where the house player played up in rounds 1&2 but was not needed for round 3. The next lower section did need him and he qualified for that section so he entered with 2 half point byes, won the 3rd game and split second prize in that section (entry fee was subtracted from prize as noted for all free entries).

I often play in an extra games section / house player and they are almost are always for section for which I do not qualify. One time it was for the top section so I used my leverage and said I would play the 3rd round in the section for a free entry, 1/2 bye for round 1, & no entry fee withheld if I won a prize. 1.5 would indeed tie for $G. I lost the game. .

10

For example I was only thinking how to handle being not needed in the Open section for round 2 but needed in a lower section for round 2. If I have to give the round 2 lower section player a bye even though I play him in round 2, it defeats the purpose of the house player.

However, instead of calling the round 2 lower section game a cross section pairing, can I make it an extra rated game against the house player? In that case would the round 2 lower section player still get a bye for round 2 in the tournament? My true goal was to avoid having to give a bye to the lower section player for round 2, but perhaps it isn’t fair to pair him against the house player as a bona fide tournament game. It may be that the Open section has 8 to 9 players including the house player, and the other section has 3 to 5 players not including a house player. Whatever section the free entry house player plays in, the house player will not be eligible for prizes.

11

Many TDs consider cross-sectional games to be simple extra rated games. Others treat them as cross-sectional games in the higher-rated player’s section using the lower-rated player as a house player in that section while rating the bye the lower-rated player was given, though they must then be careful to deactivate the player brought in for that one game (even in major events that step has sometimes been omitted for a house player, resulting in pairing the house player in the next round and causing a forfeit win if the player is no longer looking for a game that was never expected).

Copying the players to an extra games section eliminates any worry about forgetting to deactivate them. Note that one method of copying has a potential risk. If you use a re-enter option to the extra games section then that option deactivates the player in the original section and you have to remember to reactivate the player. Doing a true copy (not a re-entry) eliminates that one potential risk.

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12

The downside to putting house players, cross-round games or cross-section games in an extra games section is it can affect eligibility for bonus points.

But a house player is a house player, free to be placed in any section where there’s an odd number, for whatever reason.

13

I ask about “Deactivate” because you used the term in your previous post. The Chessnut software has “Deactivate” for an option related to members of the chess club, but I did not know the proper use of “Deactivate.” If you would take the time to do so in a simple explanation, what is the proper use for the Deactivate option? Is it used for the process of setting up a registered section player to play an extra rated game? Is it also used for the house player to be that player’s opponent in the extra rated game?

Next, does the lower section player still get a bye for the round in which he is playing the extra rated game? Lastly, can the house player of the Open section who isn’t occupied for round 2 play an extra rated game for round 2 against a player in a lower section?

15

Ken, if you make a person in the reserve section a house player in the open section then you cannot simply move them. Such a move would require moving all of the player’s opponents, and the opponents’ opponents, and so on. Instead you need to have a second entry for that player in the open section, and in that section the player needs to only get paired for that single round. That can happen by turning off the active flag (making them inactive or deactivated or withdrawn depending on the pairing program’s term) once the result has been entered. Or by entering zero point byes for every future round.

Putting cross-sectional games in one of the two sections allows the player in that section to take full advantage of bonus points, especially if the one in the section won the game.

If you have extra games sections then the bonus point calculation is only done section by section. Moving the extra games to the winner’s section (or the lower rated player’s section in the event of a draw) would usually help that player’s chances of getting bonus points. Note that you don’t move games, but rather move players (with their games coming along with them). The TD/A upload can already handle multiple entries for the same ID in the same section, merging them for the rating and bonus point calculation for that section (needed to handle multiple schedules and re-entries),

It is best to make player moves (out of an extra games section) after the tournament is over, Then you don’t have to worry about the moved extra player also getting paired in future rounds.

16

If you are willing to tell, how does a TD recognize an extra games pairing in the tournament software during a tournament? If you are familiar with Chessnut, using that perspective would be useful. If you are not familiar with Chessnut, perhaps telling me in general terms may be helpful.

17

Thanks for starting to answer. Trying to play an extra rated game, recording it in Chessnut, and then reporting it to the USCF is outside of my knowledge. I don’t know what “Deactivate” is used for if it relates to playing an extra rated game against an odd number player in a lower rated section or to moving a house player from one section to another to play when and where needed.

Maybe I should just let lower rated section players have their byes and no extra rated games on the side. It would be nice if you could join the Test club as an invitee, become an organizer to the Test club, and show me how to do the function steps of playing an extra rated game against an odd numbered person in a lower rated section even though I am already set up as a House player in the Open section.

Tim helped me some in my next post with Extra Games issues. I can create an Extra Games section early, but should I wait to Enter the Extra Games section games and scores after the tournament is over to avoid any problems with names of players being entered in 2 different sections? Or can club members not be entered in 2 different sections of the same tournament?

Do you have any ideas how to help?

18

In your software simply create an extra games section. Say you have a three sectioned event: Open, Reserve, and Booster. Simply add another section called Extra Games. Now you have Open, Reserve, Booster, and Extra Games. Whenever you have players with byes let them keep their byes in their Open, Reserve or Booster section. In the round they are receiving their byes also pair them in the Extra Games section VS another byed player or a house person. The Extra games get rated but don’t count towards prizes in the tournament. All pairings in the Extra Game section are done by hand. To use a house person in the Extra Games section you may need to create more than one round so that person can play all those other byed players from the tournament. You can even pair two byed players from the other sections keep their byes in those sections and then play a rated game with each other in the Extra Games section. Extra Games players are all paired by hand.

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19

Thanks Tim. When the extra rated game(s) is/are reported to the USCF, do you just count the extra rated games normally as tournament games in the section titled, “Extra Games?” And should I wait until the tournament is over to Enter the Extra Games section games and scores to avoid any software conflicts with names being entered in two different sections?

20

If I leave the players who play extra rated games in their original sections and create a 3rd section called, “Extra Games,” then will that allow the tournament players to get bonus points for their standard original section tournament games while at the same time not get bonus points for the extra rated games?

21

Each section of a tournament is separate from the others (one exception discussed later). Pairings in one section should have zero impact on pairings in another section (even irrelevant for color assignment). In cross-sectional games the player in the section where the game is being listed should get due color even if that means the house-player opponent is getting their color a second or third time in a row. In extra games sections colors are often simply assigned by lot while ignoring either players’ color history.

Bonus points are calculated on a section by section basis. For that matter, ratings are calculated on a section by section basis and where the extra games section appears can have a (small) effect on the final ratings of the players in it. The K-factor is also assigned on a section by section basis and gets smaller for longer tournaments, meaning that playing a nine-round tournament with a round one win over a very low-rated player has a smaller k-factor than getting the same score against the same opponents except for a round one forfeit win - with the gain from a round one actual win being smaller than the additional gain from the other eight rounds if an eight-round k-factor was used following a round one forfeit win (I speak from personal experience).

Some significant differences between an extra-games section and cross-sectional pairings are <1> people can easily see the results of a cross-sectional game during the tournament (even if you post the extra games results many would not notice them) and <2> one of the players in each game has the game counting towards potential bonus points (usually the players involved are in the bottom score group and are not going to be getting bonus points, but that is not necessarily so in rounds one and two) and <3> If you are using cross-sectional games and the sections are submitted in descending rating order then the lower section (usually losing) players get their ratings adjusted before their sections are rated, often resulting in a higher final rating that if they were rated in the other order and <4> Tie breaks for winning a cross-sectional game in your section generally work out better than for getting a bye or forfeit win (though in one national HS championship the tie-breaks for going 6.5-0.5 after drawing the only other 6.5-0.5 gave an edge to the winner on tie-breaks because that player had.a round one forfeit win and thus received 6.5 modified median from the opponent while giving only 6 to that opponent).

One significant difference comes in when you have multi-sectional team prizes such as at some scholastic tournaments or mixed doubles prizes. If you use cross-sectional games then make sure the team code is turned off on the players being pulled into a section for a single round. Also, make sure an extra games section is not included in the team calculation if you are using such a section.