I have never run an extra rated games section in a tournament. Is this all there is to it? You just make an extra rated games section and have 3 rounds because the related accompanying tournament has 3 rounds? Then file the complete tournament together as one complete unit including the extra rated games section?
There’s no reason for the extra games section to have the same number of rounds as any of the main sections, many extra games sections are just one round. The only time you would likely need more than one round is if any of the players in the extra games section have more than one extra game.
Mike. . .
I have to have 3 rounds if the extra rated games section is using a constant house player, don’t I? Is that what your last sentence was referring to?
That would meet the condition in my second sentence, wouldn’t it?
Mike. . .Other than having a house player, is an extra rated games section treated just as a normal section of the tournament when the tournament is submitted, or do TDs have to call attention to the extra section?
Here’s a question for you, Ken. Let’s say you run a 4 round event with a single designated house player who plays in every round.
What differences in ratings and norms might arise if you put the house player in the main section versus having the house player in an extra games section?
This is not just an abstract question, it’s one that as a TD you might have to answer at an event you’re directing.
The extra rated games section allows someone in the main tournament to keep his bye that might be 350 points or more below the house player. If I end up having 11 players, I am aware of this. Putting the house player in the main tournament might be unfair in that case. So, the 11th player would have the best of both worlds if he or she chose to play the extra rated game.
Do you think the parent of one of the players would accept that explanation?
Mike. . .thanks for bringing that up. All of the players are adults.
Some of the nastiest confrontations I’ve had as a TD came from adult players. There was one who accused me of making biased pairings against him, requested an appeals committee, and refused to accept the appeals committee’s decision and withdrew from the event, threatening to appeal to the national office, saying in a fairly loud voice that he was going to have my TD certification revoked. (I did offer to call one of the special referees.)
Mike. . .Was it a Swiss Tournament?
Yup, 5 rounds over 2 days. He was complaining about round 3, paired by SwissSys, too.
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I regularly use extra games sections. Reasons to not do so are:
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the sole extra game for the tournament (bye players from two sections and only one pair wanted to play instead of taking the bye and resting) ended up triggering the match alert. Move the game to the section of one of the players (a player can be in a section multiple times under multiple entries to allow for tournaments with re-entries) and then eliminate the extra games section
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you always put the game in the same section as one of the players (make sure they are then made inactive so you don’t pair somebody twice). That makes it easier for a player with a first round bye, and an extra game win, to qualify for bonus points. It also means that the results of the extra game are on cross-tables that you put up during the tournament. Most TDs with extra games sections do not post an extra games cross-table during the event so those games have a much higher likelihood of having the result appealed once the tournament report is on-line (much higher might be the difference between 0.02% and the 2 orders of magnitude higher 3%).
Jeff. . .I will have 1 section of 12 players or less and an extra rated games section for the byed player, if there is one, playing an extra game if he or she opts to do that while keeping the bye from the main tournament. There would be a house player to play the extra rated games against each byed player that is opted.
I have gotten into just always doing it as an extra game section, but before I submit if it helps if it could help bonus or norm - I will move into that section. I almost always put myself in my natural section and take byes as needed / allowed so no odd man byes are needed in that section.
I use to automatically force a player in the higher rated section to earn their full point by playing a full bye player from a lower section and having it count it the higher section. That was more common for 3+ sections.
I just played an extra game in a dual rated G/45;d5
there was already an extra game going on G/65;d5 regular only
The TD did make two separate extra game sections so they got rated naturally.
Every situation is different, it is possible that including an ‘extra game’ in the main section could affect ratings or norms computations either positively or negatively, and it may not be obvious to many TDs which is likely to be the case.
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Mike,
I am planning a 4 round dual rated tournament. Will 4 games cause people to get bonus points if they play all 4 games in the tournament? And how do norms affect non titled players? My tournament won’t have any titled players. So, what good is a norm?
You’re confusing FIDE norms and titles with the US Chess Norms-based title system, see
Having 4 games does not guarantee a bonus, because a bonus is based on performing above expectations. Only about 20% of bonus-eligible performances get a bonus. For more details on bonuses, see page 11 and 12 of the ratings document:
Mike. . .was 4 games the minimum in a tournament to be eligible to receive a bonus?