We have a tournament planned for February 28, 2026. To reference the right published ratings GoldenDB for this tournament, I will need to choose the one that came out during the 3rd Wednesday in January, right? I should not choose the GoldenDB that comes out the 3rd Wednesday of February even though it may come out the latest time just before our tournament because that print out is really for the following month, March, right? I want to use the right Publshed Ratings reference for my February 28 tournament, so which one do I choose based on the fact that it comes out ahead of time during the previous month?
Ken,
You received the answer to this same question 10 days ago. It has not changed. Do I have to manually get everyone's rating from the website? - #45 by nolan
Ulmont, what you donât know is that someone asked me why I was using Januaryâs list. Januaryâs list is for February right? So, it seems that if I use what was put out in January I am using what is right? So, is that accurate to think that way?
Youâre still asking the same question Mike already answered for you. As noted: âa February 28th event would normally use the February listâ. The list that is labeled as February is the list to use. The list that is labeled as February comes out around the 3rd Thursday of January.
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An entire month of tournaments should be paired using the same official ratings. Some tournaments using a list that isnât created until some time into the month would violate that.
The only deviations from that are if the pre-tournament announcement specifies a different list (rule 28C), or if there were players unrated in the specific list while organizers are allowed to use ratings subsequently earned if those players had at least four games rated after the creation of the official list (rule 28D3). A player is also allowed to request use of a later rating only if that rating is higher than the official list, or a player may be assigned a higher rating to counteract likely sandbagging (28E) with things like the CCA minimum rating list being one anti-sandbagging measure. A tournament section with a lower rating limit is one reason players would request being assigned a higher rating that would make them eligible for the desired section.
There can also be section restrictions that prevent players from entering a section their ratings qualify them for. An example is the scholastic national restriction that prevents a player that has score 6-1 or better in an under section from entering that same (or lower) under section in the future even if they are still in a school grade that would allow it.
Jeff,
I have a tournament coming up. Are we allowed to put 2 unrateds in an Under 1200 section and 2 unrateds in an Under 800 section? There are no games played at all for the 4 unrateds and they have not estimated their playing strengths. I donât want to punish them for not estimating by putting them in the Open section. However, they can win $30 for first place in their respective sections. So, are we required to put them in the Open Section which also has $30 for 1st place.
If it makes a difference on how you answer my questions, I have not seen the MUIR version of the published ratings area and maybe neither its TD area. I have only seen the Legacy versions of those areas as far as I remember. Apparently, I canât use a cell phone to view them. I hope to check them out with a laptop.
Unrateds are not eligible for purely class or purely under prizes. That is different from saying they are ineligible for under sections and many tournaments allow unrateds in under sections (if there are U1600, U1400 and U1200/unrated prizes in an under 1800 section then unrateds are only eligible for the overall prizes of the section and the U1200/unrated prizes and if U1200/unrated was changed to U1200 with no specific unrated prizes then the unrateds would only be eligible for the overall prizes of the section). The bigger tournaments often put maximum prize winning limits on unrateds in under sections but a lot of smaller tournaments do not bother. Some tournaments (such as the scholastic nationals) allow unrateds only in the championship sections and unrated-only sections.
Jeff. . .We should have sections with overall prizes. If we use the Under 1200 section, it will have its own section to win in all by itself. It looks like we will have 3 separate sections each with its own overall prizes. This can be the Open, Under 1200, and Under 800 sections. Some of the unrated players are given their performance ratings before any February print out changes. Others are given rating estimates by himself or by me. Four of the unrated players were left alone. I thought the following is what could be:
OPEN Section
Sara Walsh. . . . . . . .1846
Michael Hayes. . . . .1740
Brian Childers . . . . .1673
Kenneth Pugh . . . . .1456
Andy Strang. . . . . . .1368
Lou Doboe. . . . . . . .1283
UNDER 1200
Luke Johnson. . . . . . .1123
John Young. . . . . . . . .1097
Roman Williams. . . . .1088
Brian Vander Mey. . . . .995
Daniel Sullivan . . . . . . .966
Robert Larson. . . . . . . .960
Evan Jabaley. . . . . . . . .950
Colton Harris. . . . . . . . .862
Jake Boy . . . . . . . . . . . UNR
Willis Hatcher IV. . . . . .UNR
UNDER 800
Will Hickman. . . . . . . . .799
Phillip Busch. . . . . . . . .732
Wesley Roberts. . . . . . .700
Will Hickman. . . . . . . . .536
Charlie Young . . . . . . . .509
Wesley Conley. . . . . . . .109
Declan Conley . . . . . . . .105
Paul Novak. . . . . . . . . . UNR
Douglas Gumbs. . . . . . UNR
And you are saying that if we do this in this setup, the Unrateds can win their sectionsâ overall prizes?
This is more of an âorganizerâ question than a âTDâ question, the organizer decides what the sections and prizes are and whoâs eligible for them, the TD has to follow the rules set by the organizer and promulgated in advance publicity. These rules should be clear and unambiguous. (When they arenât, life gets messy.)
I would probably label such a section as Under 1200/Unrated to make it clear that unrated players are eligible for the place prizes, or offer a separate âtop unratedâ prize in that section if they were not.
Others may disagree, but absent clear definitions of whoâs eligible for what, the TD does NOT have the discretion to assign a rating to an unrated player and have it apply for section or prize eligibility determination.
I have seen events where the pre-tournament publicity stated âUnrated may play in any section but are only eligible for place prizes in the top section or for unrated prizes (if any) in other sections.â
The logic behind this is as follows: An unrated player who knows heâs not very good really doesnât belong in the top section of the event, where heâs likely to lose every game and have a lousy tournament experience as well. By entering a more appropriate section, the unrated player gets more reasonable pairings but may forgoe any prize possibilities.
The Cornhusker State Games used to have an under/xxxx/unrated section (1200, I think) with separate medals for rated and unrated players in that section.
Nolan. . .The Lead TD is the Organizer. But if it is against the rules to let 2 unrated players win shares of $60 because the Lead TD/Organizer wants them in the Under 1200 Section and pay out $30 Ă (10/8) to any unrated player who wins 1st Place because the payout is based on 8 players in the section that actually had 10 players, then the rules must win out. However, if the Organizer of the tournament who is the TD can override the rules, then the sections I posted earlier can stand as is.
So, is, in fact, the Organizer allowed to override the rule book and go ahead and pay an unrated player the 1st Place prize in the Under 1200 section? Please say yes or no. Our tournament wants to pay the unrated for 1st places in the Under Sections.
We have this for our event tomorrow:
Unrated players may play in either section [open or U1400], but are prize eligible in the open only.
If announced in all pre-event publicity, the organizer can play backgammon instead of chess.
1B. Validity.
US Chess play shall be governed by these rules of chess and by all US Chess procedures and policies. World Chess Federation (Federation Internationale des Echecs, or FIDE) rules shall not be used unless specifically announced in advance. For events that use FIDE rather than US Chess rules the (FIDE) International Laws of chess apply.
1B1. Notification.
Any variations from these published rules, including variations discussed in this rulebook, should be posted and/or announced at the tournament prior to their use, preferably before the first round.
1B2. Major variations.
A variation sufficiently major so that it might reasonably be expected to deter some players from entering should be mentioned in any Chess Life announcement and all other detailed pre-tournament publicity and posted and/or announced at the tournament.
Specifically to unrated prizes:
33F. Unrateds.
Note that many players who are playing in their first US Chess tournament, although they have no US Chess ratings, are by no means beginners. Some have high ratings or categories in other countries, and not all reveal these to directors as required. Unrated players should generally not be eligible for any prizes of value other than place or unrated prizes. Prizes such as âD/E/Unratedâ are not recommended.
When substantial cash prizes are offered in sections for lower-rated players, unrateds are often ineligible to enter or have a prize limit far below that of rated players. See also 29J, Unrateds in class tournaments.
Thatâs âshould generally not be eligibleâ, not âmust not be eligible.â The organizer can do what they want here but should announce it.
Ulmont. . .would you take a look at our TLA on the website where players can register for our tournament? Would you tell me if the TLA needs more information so that we can pay unrated players for 1st - 3rd places or if the TLA is fully worded? The link is below:
Suppose you were a player who entered the event based on the pre-event publicity, drove or flew to the tournament location and possibly booked a hotel room, and then the organizer changed whoâs eligible for what sections or prizes the day of the event. Would that seem fair to you?
Yes, there are situations where based on things like turnout or a change in the time available for the event due to a site issue that there have to be some changes to the schedule (sections split or combined, RR instead of swiss or vice-versa, etc) but the goal when doing those (acting as the organizer, not as a TD) is to still make the event as fair as possible for those who entered based upon the pre-event tournament publicity description of the event, even if that has negative financial consequences for the organizer. (TDs donât write prize checks, organizers do.)
I believe there have been cases where the event was changed on-site and players filed an appeal to have the advertised prizes paid out and the appeal was successful.
When the TD is also the organizer (fairly common in small events), that individual needs to make sure what âhatâ theyâre wearing for each situation they deal with.
Your TLA doesnât make sense to me at all. You say:
Open section cash prizes: $30 for 1st Place, $20 for 2nd Place, $10 for 3rd Place.
Cash prizes are based on 8 entries per section.
Each section will have 4 to 10 players at the discretion of the tournament director.
But I only see an option to enter into the open section and no list of prizes for any other section.
If you just mean youâre gonna carve people up unto small 3-round tournaments of 4-10, thatâs somewhere in between âquadsâ (dividing everyone up into groups of 4 by rating) and a small swiss event, but itâs completely unclear from your link a) that youâre doing this at all and b) what the prizes are for any section other than open.
Event design is a separate skill from directing an event, one that US Chess doesnât really recognize. (FIDE at least has a âFIDE Organizerâ title that is separate from arbiter titles.)
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Ulmont. . .we did not know who was going to sign up for the tournament. So, for now we left only the Open section to sign up for. But based on what ratings sign up, we will add sections as needed to cover the lower and unrated players. We need to be able to put unrated players in the lower sections because of performance ratings for example. We want to pay the unrated players if they win as well.
Have you considered putting any of this language into your pre-event publicity (link, any ads, etc.) for potential players to see?
I would say no, we did not know we needed to. The lead TD wants only what is necessary and no more.