After taking the National HS, IS 318 (with two masters and one expert) was first (K-9 championship section with 12 teams) and third (K-8 championship section with 22 teams and 5.5 points behind Kennedy MS of Cupertin CA and its four experts) at the National JH.
On the one hand, the K-8 had almost twice the number of players and teams as the K-9 (177 vs 94), but on the other hand K-9 had ten masters to K-8’s one master. While on the gripping hand (old “Mote in God’s Eye” reference) Kennedy had four high-scoring players over 2000 versus IS 318s three.
Congratulations to Kennedy and IS 318 and their Championship teams.
P.S. The K-8 team from IS 318 had a single A player and then B players and lower, and still took third (one point behind Horner JH of Fremont CA which had a similar line-up and a third as many players).
I would like to think that was just a clerical error. I can’t imagine IS 318’s top 4-5 players going into the K-8, unless they were trying to pursue some record for most total team points scored in a national event.
(Not a bad side question…I wonder what that record total is? I have a hard time believing it’s over 24, and even that would be in a JV section, if I had to guess.)
I think more importantly the record shows that the same players from this team can compete in the K-9 section NEXT year for a repeat. I observed many of these games first hand and I am impressed. Whatever they are doing I wish them continued success and look forward to seeing them in next year’s Supernationals.
The only question for IS 318 is which tournament will they choose to play in? Since both will be held at the same time they will have to make a choice.
I believe New York high schools start at grade 9, and the middle schools stop at grade 8. So, Messrs. Black, Williams and Bareyev are good candidates to wind up at different high schools. It would be interesting, though, if they could stay together through high school. They could conceivably win the national high school title FIVE straight years (albeit with two different schools).
Michael Aigner has noted a trend of progressively stronger “kiddie” teams. The evidence seems undeniable. As Jeff Wiewel pointed out, California’s Kennedy MS had four experts this year who combined to win the K-8. Also worth noting: Arizona’s Catalina Foothills HS had multiple experts playing in the K-9. I believe it’s only a matter of time before the top middle school teams have four players who couldn’t play the US Amateur Team together.
If it was a clerical error, then nobody made an effort to fix it for several weeks. Note that IS 318 won both K-9 and K-8 last year by splitting their top players. Who knows what they were planning this year.
Kennedy entered in K-8 for one reason only, and it certainly was not to get an easy 1st place trophy. When IS 318 switched sections at the last moment, the Kennedy team didn’t find out until it was too late. The timing of the move left a bitter taste.
Then Kennedy (2136 average) has two years to get an average rating over 2200. They lose only one player (of top five) each year, and their first NM is one of the three current 6th graders. After that, high school will be (up to) four more years of the same (at least until academic pressure takes over).
I find it difficult to fault players for playing in any section for which they qualify, and I find it difficult to sympathize with players who miss deadlines for committing to a section.
I don’t think it should be immediately assumed that either K-8 or K-9 is the “implicitly” stronger section. In 2000, just before round 1, 4 of the top contending teams suddenly realized that we all registered in K-8, and that K-9 was a weaker team section that year. It was only shortly before the round, and we considered drawing lots to have 2 teams switch sections - but decided that it was so at the last minute that it would be too irritating for the directors.
Is it possible that the organizer or TD forced one (or more) team members to switch, perhaps because of some obscure eligibility question? Then the rest of the team would want to switch too.
Looking at the crosstables for the two tournaments this year, I would say IS 318 went into the harder individual section. (One could argue that Kennedy MS provided the stiffest available team competition.) I presumed they knew who was entered in each section before moving their players. Moreover, having just won the national high school title, the school probably wouldn’t duck the top junior high competition.
Of course, all of this is speculation, and I don’t intend to denigrate either school’s outstanding results. It would be interesting to hear why IS 318 waited so late to switch their top players.
Along the same lines, I don’t understand why teams/players at a national event should be allowed to switch sections within 24 hours of the first round. The increase in probability for clerical error is a foreseeable consequence that, IMHO, should be avoided unless an entry is found to not be in compliance with the rules.
From a TD or rules perspective, nothing is wrong. I don’t even question the desire to play in the more competitive K-9 section. I only question the timing of the switch, apparently after most players had checked in on Thursday.
Anything is possible, but it seems unlikely. All of the top IS 318 players were declared as 7th graders at 2011 JHS and as 8th graders at 2012 HS. One would wonder what could have changed in the two weeks since Minneapolis.
It would be big news to me if 3 of the top 5 players in K-8 (and their top rated team) would switch at the last minute, due to TD action affecting their team.
K-9 is “implicitly” the more difficult section for individual trophies. The team race, however, varies from year to year. Last year, IS 318 won both K-8 and K-9 by splitting their top players, but K-9 proved much harder.
There is a $20/player change fee to switch sections within the last month. Given the other sizable expenses of attending nationals, this fee is hardly a deterrent. In fact, the hassle of submitting another credit card payment is a motivating factor to wait and make the change on-site.
Such section switches occur with some regularity. There are many and varied reasons.
Some occur because a player/coach wants to keep or put a team together. That can happen becuase a player may register separately and sign up for a different section - or a team may be spread amongst several sections a a coach decides to consolidate on one.
Some occur because they realize a different section is available. Some register incorrectly.
Changes have to be requested on a change form that must be signed by the requestor. The form used does not ask for a reason - just a $20 per player change fee. So the tournament does not know why changes are made - nor does the staff really care as long as the player qualifies for the section into which they wish to go. Other than that, it is simply a matter for the players and coaches.
IS 318 is a grade 6-8 school. As the sections are K-8 and K-9, they would have a choice of which section to enter.
Each school district in NY can set up their schools individually, so there are middle schools (6-8), junior highs (7-9) as well as other variations. I believe in NYC each community board (there are like 25 within the city) has those options as well.
I both know and understand the reasons you gave (which I deleted for space). I just don’t think any of them are sufficient to justify the current practice.
You have almost a full year to enter a national tournament. If I read this thread correctly, you’re already allowed to change without penalty up to 1 month before the event. Any changes after that, IMHO, should be charged a much stiffer fee. The current $20 fee is really not worth mentioning, especially given the cost of attending a national event. I’d rather see the fee become a deterrent to that sort of thing. Perhaps a sliding scale as the tournament approaches its start?
I don’t think the staff really needs to know why a switch is happening. But ANY switch within hours of the first round causes problems. The whole point of not generally allowing on-site registration, of course, is to avoid those problems.
But, indeed, on site registration is allowed. The first round begins at 1pm on Friday. On-site registrations and changes for the first round are allowed through 10AM on Friday. Any registrations after 10AM are not paired in the first round. Any section changes after the torunament begins, and those happen too, are generally treated like late registrations.
Thanks for the correction. When last I dabbled in spring nationals, this sort of thing was advertised as not being done (though ad hoc exceptions were made).
