My son was in Public School in New York last year for 3rd Grade. He switched to a Private School this year, and because of the different age cutoffs (New York Public Schools go by Calendar Year, Private Schools by Academic Year), he is too young for 4th Grade and has to go into 3rd Grade again. He will be 9 in November.
He played in the 3rd Grade Nationals last year - can he play in them again this year, or will he be the only 3rd Grader playing in the 4th Grade Nationals? I’ve already registered him for the 3rd Grade Nationals thinking that only his current grade matters, but a friend suggested otherwise, so I would like to clarify this before going to the tournament.
I’d have to check with the office on an official answer, but I think if your son is in 3rd grade this year, that’s the section he should play in as well.
The real challenge comes with home-schooled students or those in non-traditional (ie, not grade-separated) programs.
I agree with both parts of Mike’s answer: a) ask the Office (not here) for the right answer and b) I believe the prevailing philosophy is that the school is the final authority on what grade a student is in. I think there are some (liberal) age guidelines, but whenever I need to know what they are, I : a) ask the Office (not here) for the right answer…
If the question were what section should your son play in if he had the choice, my answer would be that, if he has been doing reasonably well (50% or better) in recent scholastic tournaments, he should go for the 4th grade section. His chess will further improve much faster that way, even if he has to take some lumps at first.
If the field is similar to last year, your son (currently rated around 1840) is likely to be one the top two or three players in either the 3rd or 4th grade section.
The Scholastic Regulations try to be comprehensive, and sometimes they may be too specific or not anticipate situations such as this, where a change in school forces a change in grade.
Consider the following sentences:
I’ll see if I can get someone from the Scholastic Council to look at this thread.
Hmm, so a player who fails 3rd grade and is held back, would have to play “up” a grade for the rest of his scholastic life, and in 12th grade would be completely ineligible for scholastic tournaments?
In that case, he should play in the high school section, if they’ll let him.
Those regulations are for the national tournaments, so playing in his current grade for local and state scholastic events would fall under whatever regulations govern those (currently in IL he’d be allowed to play in third grade).
For that matter, even if he has to play in fourth grade this year, if he a) ever misses a year going to nationals or b) skips a grade, then he’d be back in his regular grade for nationals.
I don’t think Illinois has separate ‘3rd grade championship’ and ‘4th grade championship’ sections in a tournament, do they?
This is a classic case of “The more tightly you try to define the rules, the more likely you are to get tripped up by something you didn’t anticipate.”
In this particular tournament, players do not get to choose. There is a correct section. There are many reasons for this. It’s part of the very reason for the existence of the event.
“Should” doesn’t really enter into it. There is no “go for it”.
The right thing to do is to send the facts (as outlined in the original post) to the Office and ask for a ruling.
My guess (with a fair bit of familiarity with this particular event) is that the correct section is 3rd grade.
Note that one of the cited sections uses the word “require”. The other uses the word “should”. This looks like a case where “require” trumps “should”.
Consider: if this player continues to play in this event, in what section should he play when he is a senior in High School?
If memory serves, there are also age guidelines to cover extreme cases. My impression is that they are liberal enough so that this particular student is still eligible for 3rd grade. This is more like a “held back 6 months” than “held back 1 year”; he is not being “held back” from the point of view of his new school system.
If this student is part of a team, there should be a coach who knows how to contact the Office and get a definitive ruling. If the student is playing as an individual, the decision could be deferred until arrival at the event (but please do attach a note explaining the ambiguity to the entry).
Thank you for your informative comments. My major concern is that unless I get written permission from the Office prior to going to the Grade Nationals, my son Kadhir Pillai might be disqualified in the middle of the tournament for being in the wrong section, especially if one of the parents raises objections.
The key point, as mentioned, seems to be whether “requires” trumps “shall”.
Although Kadhir was in a team last year (PS 116), he is now at Trevor Day, which has no team. I have no idea how to contact the Office - I’ve emailed this question twice via the web form without response.
This is a situation that seems to be peculiar to New York - kids born between September 1 and December 31 would be in different grades depending on whether they go to Public School or Private School.
He won’t be disqualified, but might be moved. Let me repeat that: he will NOT be disqualified from the tournament. Period. You can stop worrying about that.
In the worst case, he might be moved from one section to the other. You can make sure this does not happen in several ways. It’s easiest if you succeed in reaching the Office beforehand, but there will be no problem straightening it out on site. As early as possible, go to “Chess Control” and explain the issue. The people there will contact the TDs involved and they will make a decision. As long as you do this as soon as you arrive (or, as soon as Chess Control opens) there will be no trouble at all. Be sure to tell the person at Chess Control that this is a decision that needs to be made by the Chief TD for the tournament. Note that you don’t necessarily need to wait around for the decision to be made (in case the Chief TD happens to be busy putting out some other fire at the time). It’s important that you tell Chess Control about the issue ASAP - but if your son will play in any event you don’t really need to know the decision until pairings go up for the first round.
Belt-and-suspenders time: be sure to check the first round pairings ASAP. If your son is not paired (a possible outcome from the confusion, alas) or is paired incorrectly (in your opinion) - go DIRECTLY to Chess Control. They will undoubtedly take you to the TD room (but, do NOT go there on your own) and fix it. There are always lots of adjustments made before, during, and after the first round; it’s not a big deal. Things become a bit more difficult (but still not yet impossible) once the first round begins. Players have been moved from one section to another several rounds into the event (but you really don’t want to have this happen if your son is a top contender).
Again: be sure to tell everyone you talk to, in the first sentence, that this is a case where the rule may be ambiguous and that the decision should be bumped up to the Chief TD for the event ASAP. Even the Section Chiefs for the 3rd and 4th Grade sections may not have enough information (or enough of the Big Picture) to get it right the first time, under time pressure. I think I know the right answer, and have a strong opinion on the question, but if I were the 3rd of 4th Grade Section Chief I would certainly escalate the question immediately rather than make the decision myself. This is a question on which reasonable people may differ, and in the end there’s only one opinion that counts. (actually, I would probably make the decision, warn you that it might be changed, send you away, and then find the Chief TD and explain why my decision was correct - but that’s just me).
Thank you Nolan for getting this information. Should I contact Mike Nietman to get the ruling in writing? Do you have contact information for the responsible person?
I’m not sure why the answer wasn’t sent back to you a couple of weeks ago. Perhaps they didn’t have an email address for you.
I suspect that since your son was already in the appropriate section, they did not see any reason to change his registration or to contact you. I don’t see any reason you need it in writing, either, the tournament officials should be fully aware of it at this point.
